Enphase Introduces Bidirectional EV Charging Solution

[Hammered]

Very expensive solution for something that one may need once in 5-10 years. It's cheaper to take a European vacation every time blackout happens than pay for this system.
If you live in an area where outages happen every year you probably already have (or should have) a diesel/natural gas generator, which cost nothing compared to battery powered solution.

The cheap option, manually throwing an interlocked breaker, would be fine for most people.

Also, don't take the power grid for granted. You'll never hear someone with an ATS equipped generator say they regret installing it.

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[Say Watt]

Ioniq 5 is another BEV capable of V2H.

Actually, The Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6 are V2L rated. Good enough to save your fridge and run some basics in an emergency.

https://www.cleanenergyreviews.info/blog/bidirectional-ev-charging-v2g-v2h-v2l

 

[Just Lurking]

https://enphase.com/ev-chargers/bidirectional

https://electrek.co/2023/02/02/enphase-enph-introduces-bi-directional-ev-charging/


I know there are no guarantees, but it would be awesome if this turns out to be an option.

This looks awesome and could sway me towards an Enphase-based solar system. Thanks for posting it.

It takes two to tango, but the MME lacks the equipment to do the dance...

We don't know this. Most likely it does have the equipment, it simply needs the software. I say "simply" while understanding that it's probably not that simple and I don't necessarily expect Ford to support it soon.

I’ve heard of this solution through an Enphase distribution network. I put a 15kw solar system on my house last year and planned ahead for this type of solution: conduit runs between System Controller and Main Panel, to the garage where an existing charger is wired.

While this won’t work for the Mach-E (as of today) Rivian just announced V2H and V2V is being supported in the near future; so I’ll have a use case.

Good stuff. I could see myself doing the same thing (planning ahead), and this could factor into our next car purchase. Right now we have the Mach-E and an ICE, so if we ever replace the ICE with an EV, V2H support will be very high on the list. How are you liking your Enphase system overall? Did you get the Enphase battery as well?

If by magic a feature like this could be turned on by software it would be awesome. To me this is the killer feature. V2H/L is something that is a must have for any future EV. There is something frustrating about having this giant rolling battery and but not able to effectively and easily use it.

That's my rant for today.

100% agreed. I am encouraged by an interview from someone high up at Ford (I'm forgetting his name) where he implies that the Mach-E has the same ability as Lightning with respect to V2H. Now, whether Ford chooses to enable that capability is another matter.

Does anyone know a way to get this kind of feedback to someone at Ford capable of making product decisions? I looked up this individual previously and he didn't have a Twitter account.

 

[connoisseurr]

Good stuff. I could see myself doing the same thing (planning ahead), and this could factor into our next car purchase. Right now we have the Mach-E and an ICE, so if we ever replace the ICE with an EV, V2H support will be very high on the list. How are you liking your Enphase system overall? Did you get the Enphase battery as well?

Enphase overall is a great ecosystem and am very happy with it. Yes on the batteries - I have 2x IQ10T batteries. Adding the capacity of the Rivian will be a game changer haha.

 

[mkhuffman]

I am curious how the battery warranty will work if someone is using their HVB to power their house?

It seems like VTH would add a lot of wear on the battery, making a 100,000 mile warranty hard to provide. Maybe a stipulation that the warranty is void if you use your car to power your house on a regular basis? The car companies will have to monitor VTH use in some way I am sure. I am not a fan of anyone monitoring my private use of my car...

Personally I want the battery to move my car, not power my house. I would rather use a NG generator as backup power when a failure occurs. Or an independent battery array to store solar power. Just my opinion.

 

[Mach-Lee]

I am curious how the battery warranty will work if someone is using their HVB to power their house?

It seems like VTH would add a lot of wear on the battery, making a 100,000 mile warranty hard to provide. Maybe a stipulation that the warranty is void if you use your car to power your house on a regular basis? The car companies will have to monitor VTH use in some way I am sure. I am not a fan of anyone monitoring my private use of my car...

Personally I want the battery to move my car, not power my house. I would rather use a NG generator as backup power when a failure occurs. Or an independent battery array to store solar power. Just my opinion.

I think right now IBP only works if you have a power outage. Ford probably thinks that's rare enough to not to affect the battery warranty. Any other usage (such as peak avoidance) won't be allowed until they update their warranty guidelines to include number of battery cycles as well or something.

So I think these 3rd parties releasing V2H EVSEs is nice, but they won't work until the car manufacturers allow it. Which may be never so it could be a useless product. I just haven't seen that issue addressed yet by the companies offering the V2H products.

Don't buy it until you have proof it works with actual production vehicles, it's a gimmick until then.

 

[Just Lurking]

I am curious how the battery warranty will work if someone is using their HVB to power their house?

It seems like VTH would add a lot of wear on the battery, making a 100,000 mile warranty hard to provide.

Whole-house battery makers like Enphase quote their warranty in terms of number of charge/discharge cycles and number of Megawatt-hours discharged through the system. Presumably, auto makers will have to add similar limitations to their warranties and include some way of tracking this. My guess is that the new V2H ISO standard includes a way to communicate this information.

I would rather use a NG generator as backup power when a failure occurs. Or an independent battery array to store solar power. Just my opinion.

A NG generator makes a lot of sense for people who are piped for it and for certain types of outages. I believe only about 50% of households are piped for natural gas, and that's expected to decline over the years. I'm also not sure how well natural gas will fair after a major regional earthquake.

I think right now IBP only works if you have a power outage. Ford probably thinks that's rare enough to not to affect the battery warranty. Any other usage (such as peak avoidance) won't be allowed until they update their warranty guidelines to include number of battery cycles as well or something.

So I think these 3rd parties releasing V2H EVSEs is nice, but they won't work until the car manufacturers allow it. Which may be never so it could be a useless product. I just haven't seen that issue addressed yet by the companies offering the V2H products.

Agreed. Though I do expect that most / all EVs to eventually support V2H, with appropriate consideration/exclusions against overuse. There's really little reason for them not to.

 

[TalkToErik]

The other factor to consider is the bang for your buck for batteries with solar. Enphase has 10kwh batteries that cost close to $10k installed. To get to the 91kwh capacity of my Mach E, you'd be spending $90k... That being said, enphase allows a max of four of such batteries, but still, you would be looking at $40k.

 

[mkhuffman]

Whole-house battery makers like Enphase quote their warranty in terms of number of charge/discharge cycles and number of Megawatt-hours discharged through the system. Presumably, auto makers will have to add similar limitations to their warranties and include some way of tracking this. My guess is that the new V2H ISO standard includes a way to communicate this information.



A NG generator makes a lot of sense for people who are piped for it and for certain types of outages. I believe only about 50% of households are piped for natural gas, and that's expected to decline over the years. I'm also not sure how well natural gas will fair after a major regional earthquake.



Agreed. Though I do expect that most / all EVs to eventually support V2H, with appropriate consideration/exclusions against overuse. There's really little reason for them not to.

Sounds like it might make sense to buy a Bolt for $26k just to remove the 60 kWh battery and use it for solar storage.

 

[woody]

Yes, the batteries, the batteries.
Geez, wonder who has control there?
Any all electric house in a climate that experiences winter will require a sizeable amount of storage in winter in order to weather the storm.
10kWh is nothing in winter, except for small square footage homes. Even 40kWh is only for a short lived, temporary back up for many homes.
No winter - no worries, except of course the utility company with a license to steal and nothing invested in infrastructure- just black 'em out.
The battery cost is the big barrier. Even more decades behind.
EVs are only for temporary back up power. House batteries are for usage (and/or backup). While it might be convenient to have a bi-directional system, it would only rarely be useful as a backup to the backup, if you already have house battery capability.
House critical load backup batteries work for most circumstances, my experience, and they only need to be around 30kWhs (especially when your solar panels can recharge them).
If the bidirectional EV and the house backup batteries work together there would be a bit of advantage. But worth the cost?
Pioneers we are.

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