EV property tax

[dbsb3233]

I'd have to drive 60K miles a year in my old 20MPG Subaru to pay as much fuel tax as the $150 WA State charges me for my EV registration. Then they charge another $75 for electrification infrastructure as well.
I don't mind paying my fare share, but 10 times as much as I would pay to drive my gas guzzler is really annoying.

Your math is off by 10x. It's only 6000 miles.

6000 / 20 = 300 gallons * $0.494 = $148.

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[dbsb3233]

Concrete is a more durable paving material. That's why they use it on interstates. Unfortunately it's an environmentally horrible material too.

Concrete also costs more. And is a lot harder to resurface when it does need it. But it holds a lot more weight, which I think is the main reason they often use it for interstates.

https://www.ayresassociates.com/concrete-vs-asphalt-whats-the-best-roadway-surface/

 

[rreddy3]

Concrete also costs more. And is a lot harder to resurface when it does need it. But it holds a lot more weight, which I think is the main reason they often use it for interstates.

https://www.ayresassociates.com/concrete-vs-asphalt-whats-the-best-roadway-surface/

Not to mention concrete, “rigid pavement” in the industry, on runways. In those applications it’s placed in large sections usually square to help facilitate repair and replacement. In flexible pavement the mix design is critical as is subsurface preparation and construction. Of course that’s also true with concrete construction.

Back to the point of the thread, we need to pay our fair share as EV drivers for road, highway, and bridge design, construction, and maintenance regardless of whether we call it a tax or user fee.

 

[dbsb3233]

Back to the point of the thread, we need to pay our fair share as EV drivers for road, highway, and bridge design, construction, and maintenance regardless of whether we call it a tax or user fee.

Of course. The money has to come from somewhere. Determining "fair share", or even defining it, is where the disagreement comes in. There's so many inconsistencies in government. We make actual users pay most of highways with the gas tax, and airports with landing fees, but we don't make actual users pay most of things like schools, or parks, or police/fire. (And only like 10-20% of the cost of mass transit.)

So while there's arguments to be made for user fees, there's also arguments for general funding for roads/highways. Especially for something that 100% of the populace greatly benefits from and uses (even if they don't do the driving).

 

[SeattleSteveMe]

Your math is off by 10x. It's only 6000 miles.

6000 / 20 = 300 gallons * $0.494 = $148.

That's a lot more reasonable. I shouldn't do math in my head without double checking it.

 

[Fixbear]

We’re talking about two different things but likely agree with each other on the two subjects. I was talking about EVs versus ICE cars impact on paving wear because of weight differences. That spun off the user fee issue that is at the core of this thread. We all agree that EVs don’t accelerate pavement wear.

You introduced studded snows into the discussion. I understand your point and agree that experience indicates studded snows increase wear on the pavement. My point in response is that is not an EV centric issue. It’s an issue springing from tire type, ie studded snows. It’s not related to whether a vehicle is powered by a motor or an engine.

The weight difference vs road wear will be negligible. Actually the EV low rolling resistance will likely be less. The tires scrub less and tend to run cooler. Partly from the higher pressures we run.
It was road surface wear that generates the high cost recovery covering taxes. NY gasoline has Federal taxes, state highway taxes, state and local sales taxes. But we also have electric service taxes. Phone taxes, Cable taxes. They all go into the general fund except the highway fuel tax.

 

[Lucy H]

Tennessee adds it onto your yearly License plate registration. Unfortunately it is higher than one would spend in gas tax for the average driver.

$100 for Hybrid
$200 for BEV

Plus the regular plate fee

It's also scheduled to increase in a couple of years to $274 for BEV

NJ started, just this year, to charge an additional $250 plus the regular fee. Going up to $290 by 2028. However, there is no sales tax on EV's, so I saved $3000 when I bought the car.

 

[MikeGB]

In 2023, I paid a $75 surcharge to the annual registration fee for the MME and was OK with that. In 2024 it was jacked up to $175 bringing the total to $260 annually. Since the fee for trucks from 4,500lbs to 8,000lbs is only 6% is higher, the surcharge for EV’s is not weight related. I’m paying more in state taxes for my MME than my Escape. Driving both cars 15k per year and assuming all L2 charging at home, I’m paying 1.6 times more in state taxes for the privilege of driving an EV.

15,000 miles per year, at 30 miles per gallon and 2.5miles per kWh.
15k/30 = 500 gallons x $0.23 = $115 + $85 registration fee = $200
15k/2.5 = 6,00kWh x $.13213 = $792.79 x $0.085 = $67.29 + $260 + registration/surcharge = $327.38

WI has a fixed registration fee.
WI gas tax $0.33/gallon
$85 annual registration fee
$75 hybrid electric vehicle surcharge
$175 electric vehicle surcharge
Light truck class: 4500lbs $100 annual registration fee
Light truck class: 8000lbs $106 annual registration fee

Utility electric taxing rate, 5% State, 0.5% County and 3% low income assistance fee = $0.085 at $.13213/kWh

 

[zvez]

WI has a fixed registration fee.
WI gas tax $0.33/gallon
$85 annual registration fee
$75 hybrid electric vehicle surcharge
$175 electric vehicle surcharge
Light truck class: 4500lbs $100 annual registration fee
Light truck class: 8000lbs $106 annual registration fee

Utility electric taxing rate, 5% State, 0.5% County and 3% low income assistance fee = $0.085 at $.13213/kWh

Just so I'm clear on this, you DON'T pay the $75 hybrid fee(mache is not hybrid) and the $175 ev surcharge do you?

 

[dbsb3233]

In 2023, I paid a $75 surcharge to the annual registration fee for the MME and was OK with that. In 2024 it was jacked up to $175 bringing the total to $260 annually. Since the fee for trucks from 4,500lbs to 8,000lbs is only 6% is higher, the surcharge for EV’s is not weight related. I’m paying more in state taxes for my MME than my Escape. Driving both cars 15k per year and assuming all L2 charging at home, I’m paying 1.6 times more in state taxes for the privilege of driving an EV.

15,000 miles per year, at 30 miles per gallon and 2.5miles per kWh.
15k/30 = 500 gallons x $0.23 = $115 + $85 registration fee = $200
15k/2.5 = 6,00kWh x $.13213 = $792.79 x $0.085 = $67.29 + $260 + registration/surcharge = $327.38

WI has a fixed registration fee.
WI gas tax $0.33/gallon
$85 annual registration fee
$75 hybrid electric vehicle surcharge
$175 electric vehicle surcharge
Light truck class: 4500lbs $100 annual registration fee
Light truck class: 8000lbs $106 annual registration fee

Utility electric taxing rate, 5% State, 0.5% County and 3% low income assistance fee = $0.085 at $.13213/kWh

It looks like you used $0.23 in your calculation for WI gas tax but later say it's $0.33. When I Google it actually says $0.309.

Also, we could argue that the federal gas tax needs to be counted in there too. Even though the federal gas tax ($0.183) initially goes to the feds, they then turn around and redistribute it back to state highway projects. Since there is no federal EV fee (quite the opposite when you count the huge EV tax credits), both should probably be counted. EVs mean less total federal gas tax is collected and thus less funding for states, that they have to generate themselves instead.

 

[MikeGB]

I just included the hybrid fee to show how my state incrementally raises the fees, (175 + 85 =$260).
WI gas tax is $0.329 my bad, I checked a website that rounded up. My dyslectic is showing, I tend to reverse #”s.

15k/30 = 500 gallons x $0.329 = $164.5 + $85 registration fee = $249.5 (just state)
15k/30 = 500 gallons x $0.421 = $210.5 + $85 registration fee = $295 (state & fed)

I can see the argument for adding the Fed tax but I’m assuming the Fed is only returning 50%, (18.4/2 =$0.92 + $0.329 = $0.421).

Wisconsin Gasoline Tax:
Excise tax: $30.9 / gallon
Addl. Tax: $0.02 / gallon†
Total Tax: $0.329/ gallon
† Additional Applicable Taxes: Petroleum insp. fee

https://www.revenue.wi.gov/DOR Publications/pb307.pdf
Federal taxes on gasoline amount to $0.184 per gallon (which includes an excise tax of 18.3 cents per gallon and a storage tank fee of 0.1 cents per gallon).
WI has no EV tax credits. In my case I received minimal Fed credit due to my tax situation in 2022. I found out the difference between credit and rebate the hard way. Many EV’s in today's world do not receive any Fed credit.

So the difference in taxes are: ICE = $295 & EV = $327.38

I was rounding the #’s, I doubt if I get close to 2.5kWh overall average, (WI winters are brutal on the battery range) and my Escape probably gets closer to 25MPG but I thought the average car gets around 30MPG. Charging anywhere but home will raise the cost per kWh and the taxes. Many EV owners use their EV as a secondary car, (as me) and don't average 15K miles per year.

 

[RandyMache]

PA highways and interstates are the worst I've ever driven.. GA actually enacted an amendment to the state constitution that gas tax would be used solely for road maintenance and construction.

California needs that. Our gas tax gets used on a myriad of projects other than roads. Then they cry that we need more road taxes.

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