Faraday Bag For Key?

[Mach-Lee]

I have used a faraday bag with one of the keys kept in the glove box. I expect the PAAK to fail to work at some point (it has already) and I will just open the car with the keypad and take the key out of the glove box. I haven't had any issues with this for 4 months. Just extra security. BTW, I'm not paranoid about someone breaking into my car, finding the key fob and driving away.

What’s wrong with using the backup passcode if PAAK fails?

Sponsored

 

[Old_Norm]

Let's go through this in order:

1. You and the fob are both inside the car. The car can be unlocked with the fob. This is expected.
2. The fob is locked inside the car. You then unlocked the car using the 2nd fob from out side. This is is expected.
3. The fob is locked inside the car. You then unlocked the car using Fordpass or key pad code. This is expected.

This is what you didn't try. Lock the fob in the car. Make sure your phone and the other fob are out of range completely. Make sure that all windows are fully rolled up. Press the door entry button. Does the door open? If not, the car is operating as a faraday cage and exhibiting expected behavior.

Thr car will not unlock from the outside with fob inside because the car is set up that way. It has nothing to do with faraday cages. You are out of your league here.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

What’s wrong with using the backup passcode if PAAK fails?

The problem is when the car decides not to present the keyboard when trying to start it that way. As you know, there were quite a few reports of the issue in the past.

Given that we don’t hear any noise from that department these days we can probably presume that the issue was (mostly) resolved during a software update, or everyone started keeping a fob in the car, or everyone dumped PAAK and always carries the fob. Off hand, I’d say the most likely of those three potential answers is the issue was addressed in one of the past OTA updates.

Keeping a fob in the car is a risk, faraday bag or not. Battery not included or not. Plus all the good hiding spots are more or less obvious.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

BTW, I’ve used one of the bags linked here in the past. One day I walked to the car sans cellphone with the spare fob firmly in its faraday bag and without the primary fob. The car had no issue opening up and starting with the spare fob still in the bag. This was a year after storing the fob in the bag and testing it.

I switched to a metal case.

 

[shutterbug]

The car is not a faraday cage. Otherwise your cell phone wouldn’t work inside. RF can pass through the glass windows.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage
Automobile and airplane passenger compartments are essentially Faraday cages, protecting passengers from electric charges, such as lightning.

 

[shutterbug]

Thr car will not unlock from the outside with fob inside because the car is set up that way. It has nothing to do with faraday cages. You are out of your league here.

So your explanation is basically: magic ?

LMGIFY
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage
Automobile and airplane passenger compartments are essentially Faraday cages, protecting passengers from electric charges, such as lightning.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

So your explanation is basically: magic ?

LMGIFY
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage
Automobile and airplane passenger compartments are essentially Faraday cages, protecting passengers from electric charges, such as lightning.

Airplanes are the furthest thing from a Faraday cage you can imagine. I've used my phone to successfully make calls back in the day from various locations, both on the ground and in flight. It was also quite obvious when passengers turned on their phones back in the day. As for lightning, that's not a Faraday cage protecting the aircraft. Wikipedia is not a bastion of correct answers. Could be worse though, you could have cited Quora.

 

[Meljfry]

What is PAAK?

Phone As A Key - I never carry my fob as I do outdoor sports also and don't want to be bothered with it.

 

[macchiaz-o]

The car is not a faraday cage. Otherwise your cell phone wouldn’t work inside. RF can pass through the glass windows.

The car has antennas everywhere inside and outside, so it knows if the key is inside or outside the car at all times. When you lock a fob inside the car, it remembers that, and won’t let you unlock the car from the outside with it. A valid fob must be detected OUTSIDE the vehicle for it to unlock when you press the door open button. Software enables it, not because of a faraday cage effect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage
Automobile and airplane passenger compartments are essentially Faraday cages, protecting passengers from electric charges, such as lightning.

Yes, a car is a Faraday cage just not a very good one.

The rest of Lee's explanation was accurate, though. There are several antennas in the vehicle so that it can determine whether the key is in or out, if it's in the trunk or not, etc.

Since software is used to remember the last known location of a particular key, and since Ford's software on this vehicle seems to be in constant flux and never fully reliable, I'd not recommend relying upon the car to remember that a key was locked inside.

If I wanted to leave a key in my car (and no, I really don't want to), I'd remove its battery.

 

[ralteredstates]

What’s wrong with using the backup passcode if PAAK fails?

Used it. PIA. Want to be able to use the car in a "normal" way. Just another backup that's good to have. Probably an OCD issue with me.

 

[Old_Norm]

Airplanes are the furthest thing from a Faraday cage you can imagine....Wikipedia is not a bastion of correct answers. Could be worse though, you could have cited Quora.

How about these sites?
"What happens if lightning strikes it?
The answer is simple. Nothing. You can continue sleeping peacefully because nothing will happen to the plane, and to those inside it. It is quite common for an airplane to be struck by lightning. But the airplane is a metal structure and that metal creates a Faraday cage."
"https://aiditecsystems.com/en/what-... quite common for,is conducted to the outside.

"A car or a plane which has a full metal body essentially acts as a Faraday Cage. In order to understand what is a Faraday Cage, lets dive into electrostatics."


"A plane’s body is designed to be completely encapsulated with aluminum, which allows the electrical current to flow solely through the outside or outer shell of the planet and out through the tail, keeping the inside of the plane free of electrical charge. Essentially, an airplane is a giant Faraday cage."
https://www.zmescience.com/feature-.../matter-and-energy/what-is-faraday-cage-0532/

 

[InTheHills]

Phone As A Key - I never carry my fob as I do outdoor sports also and don't want to be bothered with it.

I have trust issues... lol

But in all seriousness, part of what I like about the door code is that my people know the code and where to find the key. So no matter what happens they can use the car in an emergency. It is a small safety net for remote areas without decent cell service.

But for normal day to day Im going to test out PAAK!

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

How about these sites?
"What happens if lightning strikes it?
The answer is simple. Nothing. You can continue sleeping peacefully because nothing will happen to the plane, and to those inside it. It is quite common for an airplane to be struck by lightning. But the airplane is a metal structure and that metal creates a Faraday cage."
"https://aiditecsystems.com/en/what-happens-if-lightning-strikes-an-aircraft/#:~:text=It is quite common for,is conducted to the outside.

"A car or a plane which has a full metal body essentially acts as a Faraday Cage. In order to understand what is a Faraday Cage, lets dive into electrostatics."


"A plane’s body is designed to be completely encapsulated with aluminum, which allows the electrical current to flow solely through the outside or outer shell of the planet and out through the tail, keeping the inside of the plane free of electrical charge. Essentially, an airplane is a giant Faraday cage."
https://www.zmescience.com/feature-.../matter-and-energy/what-is-faraday-cage-0532/

Most proper explanations of lightning and aircraft which actually mention faraday cages use a phrase similar to Faraday like. At best an aircraft is an extremely poor faraday cage. As I said, I made phone calls using my various cellphones over nearly my entire career the quite easily and without issue other than the noisy environment typical of Boeing aircraft cockpits. The main issue back in the day was cellphone companies trying to figure out roaming chargers as we’d tag too many cellphone antennas.

And to answer the inevitable question, yes on older phones we could tell when someone turned them on, our radio answer navigation would start giving very erroneous information. Modern phones don’t do this unless there’s something wrong with them and we rarely use radio based navigation while enroute these days.

Lightning only knows how to seek a ground. Aircraft are not grounded. The Lightning usually, though not always, flows out the static discharge wicks in a semi orderly and quiet manner. Most of the time we’re not even aware we were struck by lightning. In 32 years of airline flying I was only aware of about half a dozen lightning strikes while flying. I still have the ringing in my ear from one of those strikes and loud discharges. 3 of them resulted in various electrical issues with one tripping all four aircraft generators at low altitude in Scotland and all lightning strikes damaged the aircraft.

Now do we want to talk about St Elmo’s Fire and the creepy and eerie ball lightning rolling through the aircraft cabin? (The correct answer is no).

 

[Old_Norm]

Most proper explanations of lightning and aircraft which actually mention faraday cages use a phrase similar to Faraday like. At best an aircraft is an extremely poor faraday cage. As I said, I made phone calls using my various cellphones over nearly my entire career the quite easily and without issue other than the noisy environment typical of Boeing aircraft cockpits. The main issue back in the day was cellphone companies trying to figure out roaming chargers as we’d tag too many cellphone antennas.

And to answer the inevitable question, yes on older phones we could tell when someone turned them on, our radio answer navigation would start giving very erroneous information. Modern phones don’t do this unless there’s something wrong with them and we rarely use radio based navigation while enroute these days.

Lightning only knows how to seek a ground. Aircraft are not grounded. The Lightning usually, though not always, flows out the static discharge wicks in a semi orderly and quiet manner. Most of the time we’re not even aware we were struck by lightning. In 32 years of airline flying I was only aware of about half a dozen lightning strikes while flying. I still have the ringing in my ear from one of those strikes and loud discharges. 3 of them resulted in various electrical issues with one tripping all four aircraft generators at low altitude in Scotland and all lightning strikes damaged the aircraft.

Now do we want to talk about St Elmo’s Fire and the creepy and eerie ball lightning rolling through the aircraft cabin? (The correct answer is no).

"Airplanes are the furthest thing from a Faraday cage you can imagine."
Kamuelaflyer

"At best an aircraft is an extremely poor faraday cage."
Kamuelaflyer

Misinformation is rampant. An extremely poor faraday cage is a faraday cage. You can make cell phone calls from an airplane because you are not inside a perfect Faraday cage. EM waves can propagate through the windows and various holes of the cabin.

 

[Sikkun]

Automobile and airplane passenger compartments are essentially Faraday cages. -Wikipedia

Next bullet:

Electronic components in automobiles and aircraft use Faraday cages to protect signals from interference.
-Wikipedia

Why do they need cages, if the vehicle is a cage. Except unless it fails to act as a cage, by the expected performance of using the word.

Sponsored