Finally located some 2024 Window Stickers

[DennisD]

I would encourage you to look up his remarks.

Toyota is shitting bricks too because of Tesla and BYD. They can’t seem to fathom how these companies can make cars this inexpensively, despite Toyota Production System being a religion for many of us (your truly included). Hybrids are so 1990s. We are well past that.

https://apnews.com/article/hybrids-...ing-stations-97b444cfa752acbd3a5c244a3ee68abb

I would encourage you to look what is "hot" now in sales.

EV's are tanking and Hybrids are ramping up. Guess who leads the Tech. in Hybrid Tech?

Tesla may be selling on the cheap but at the end of the day it may not matter if they are selling fewer cars for less money. (not a great business model)

Once again, they may come out of it fine but the direction of their profits are tanking.

That is a fact. ?

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[GreaseMonkey]

https://apnews.com/article/hybrids-...ing-stations-97b444cfa752acbd3a5c244a3ee68abb

I would encourage you to look what is "hot" now in sales.

EV's are tanking and Hybrids are ramping up. Guess who leads the Tech. in Hybrid Tech?

Tesla may be selling on the cheap but at the end of the day it may not matter if they are selling fewer cars for less money. (not a great business model)

Once again, they may come out of it fine but the direction of their profits are tanking.

That is a fact. ?

This view is tied to the present day US market. It ignores what’s happening elsewhere and what is about to happen in the future.

You can’t drive forward looking in the rear view mirror. Not even as a driving instructor.

 

[Space_Pony]

A hybrid is more economical on a road trip with the current gas prices in comparison to DCFC chargers at .50-.64/kwh.

 

[Mach1E]

First, this is not personal, Randall. I actually try not to engage cause I know we have diametrically opposite view on things.

Mach-E is supposed to also be a high volume car (produced in two plants with the Mexican one capable of 300k units). But, it’s not selling. So let’s not spend our energy criticizing the one that is literally the #1 selling car in the world (1.22M units in 2023) and figure out what’s wrong with ours so we can fix it.

That’s fair.

Side note- What the “Randall” comment? I don’t think I get the reference.

 

[areacode413]

A hybrid is more economical on a road trip with the current gas prices in comparison to DCFC chargers at .50-.64/kwh.

In my town and those nearby, town owned level 2 chargers are priced at.50 per kWh . Nobody uses them and the towns who built them only did so because of incentives. With gas at 3.15 and electricity prices constantly going up here people with modest incomes can’t afford EVs even if their goal is to reduce carbon emissions. At home charging still costs .35 per kWh.

 

[DennisD]

This view is tied to the present day US market. It ignores what’s happening elsewhere and what is about to happen in the future.

You can’t drive forward looking in the rear view mirror. Not even as a driving instructor.

The first EV was made in 1888. I guess if you ignore 136 years you have a point.

The first Hybrid was made in 1901. Neither car had a rear view mirror btw. ?

I actually think Hydrogen has more of a future than EV's but that is just a guess.

My point is this, if you are a car manufacturer and produce only one means of power you are basically placing all of your eggs in one basket. Tesla is hoping that we ignore the fact that EV's have been around longer than most other power propulsion cars and we (the masses) will naturally gravitate towards them because they are "new". It may not happen as soon as you think if the past is any indication of this slow progress.

We had a short sugar high and now are crashing down from that "high". I don't envy Tesla's position now. I will always remember people back in the day suggesting that GM was too big to fail. They failed btw. ?

 

[GreaseMonkey]

We had a short sugar high and now are crashing down from that "high". I don't envy Tesla's position now. I will always remember people back in the day suggesting that GM was too big to fail. They failed btw. ?

Is this what failure looks like to you? ? They made 17% ebitda margin, $8.9B operating income. Many Fortune 500 execs would give their first born to match that level of performance.

 

[DennisD]

Is this what failure looks like to you? ? They made 17% ebitda margin, $8.9B operating income. Many Fortune 500 execs would give their first born to match that level of performance.

They went bankrupt.

Not certain how high of a bar you use?

 

[Mach1E]

Is this what failure looks like to you? ? They made 17% ebitda margin, $8.9B operating income. Many Fortune 500 execs would give their first born to match that level of performance.

Not yet, but there are definite headwinds and things are heading in the wrong direction at the moment.

They had a huge first to mass market advantage in a niche market. Now they are flooded with competitors and had to seriously slash pricing to keep an edge.

We don’t know if this is the story of the iPhone or the tragedy of the BlackBerry.

Time will tell.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

They went bankrupt.

Not certain how high of a bar you use?

This is Tesla’s performance. When did Tesla go bankrupt?

 

[GreaseMonkey]

Not yet, but there are definite headwinds and things are heading in the wrong direction at the moment.

They had a huge first to mass market advantage in a niche market. Now they are flooded with competitors and had to seriously slash pricing to keep an edge.

We don’t know if this is the story of the iPhone or the tragedy of the BlackBerry.

Time will tell.

It’s not that we don’t know. It’s that you don’t want to believe.

 

[DennisD]

This is Tesla’s performance. When did Tesla went bankrupt?

In the post that I suggested bankruptcy, I mentioned that people back in the day was saying GM was too big to fail. It was an analogy that was simply used to show that Tesla could possibly be dealt the same fate if EV's don't pick up the pace.

GM thought they too had "the lock" on everything until the Foreign cars buried them so to speak and GM was making a killing shortly before that happened.

Once again, I am not saying it will happen to Tesla but I would be somewhat nervous with the climate that we are experiencing now and them being an exclusive EV in the drivetrain department.

 

[Mach1E]

It’s not that we don’t know. It’s that you don’t want to believe.

Not at all. I actually want Tesla to do well.

They’re just an easy target to make fun of on a Ford forum.

More than once I’ve thought about buying one. Driving my neighbors Model 3 was what got me interested in EVs in the first place.

If the model Y looked better and I didn’t hate 1PD, I would for sure have considered one. Did a deep dive on the X plaid this year too with the $50k price drop.

That said, I’ve been talking about concerns of their competition and the EV market as a whole for a while. Just a gut feeling is all.

 

[Exordium01]

Before praising Toyota too much, don’t forget that they dumped a lot of money into developing fuel cell EVs which BEVs are actually killing off. They bet on the obviously wrong horse and are trying to save face. Anybody who works with cryogenic H2 professionally could have told Toyota that an untrained individual wouldn’t be filling their tank. Trained delivery drivers regularly mess up transfers.

The PHEV sales in my opinion are because people aren’t comfortable with change, not because their use case requires one.

 

[fuzzy812]

I could be wrong, but maybe the newer LFP battery technology they started using on the 2023.5 Mach E’s?

LFP's are on the select trim only

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