Has Ford published a list of committed Model e Dealers yet?

[Logal727]

If they don't have their own DCFC, they just drive it to a DCFC station to test it, if needed. Not all that different than taking the car out for a drive to test out other issues on it.

If a dealership doesn't have a DCFC anywhere nearby to test, then fine, they can weigh the pros/cons of installing their own at that location. Kinda like how some dealers do windshield repairs/replacement themselves while others send the car out to a windshield shop when needed.

There's no DCFC over 50kw in Pinellas County, which is the most densely populated county in Florida and has many large Ford dealerships.

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[dbsb3233]

There's no DCFC over 50kw in Pinellas County, which is the most densely populated county in Florida and has many large Ford dealerships.

I don't think it needs to be over 50kw for them to test the DCFC functionality. 25kw would probably even do it.

 

[Logal727]

I don't think it needs to be over 50kw for them to test the DCFC functionality. 25kw would probably even do it.

I would think you'd wanna use one that could do the max if it were an issue with a complaint about slow charging though?

 

[dbsb3233]

I would think you'd wanna use one that could do the max if it were an issue with a complaint about slow charging though?

Perhaps but I don't know if that's ever been a car problem. Frequently a charger problem, of course, but I don't remember hearing of a car that had a problem limiting the power incorrectly. Doesn't mean it couldn't happen, of course, but that's what the dealership would need to weigh -- the frequency of such problems occurring where they need to test high power DCFC, the cost of driving to the nearest station, and the cost of spending a bundle to install it themselves.

All while recognizing that a lot more DCFC will probably be going in every year anyway.

 

[HuntingPudel]

You don't like to hang out in a dealer waiting room and watch non-offensive television content like the cats and dogs channel? cause even the weather channel is too political for some people

Oh, I dunno. Cats and dogs can be very polarizing. And let’s not even get into the Disco channel. Some people prefer Classical. ??

 

[Mach-Lee]

I may be misremembering, but I think I read that Ford is requiring 120kW minimum. These are the expensive units. Not the cheaper 50kW chargers.

Ah, here you go. From the article I linked above…

That’s a tough pill to swallow for a lot of dealerships and, frankly, of little benefit in many places. Seems more like a poison pill to kill off a lot of small dealers.

Here are the Ford chargers dealers will buy: https://rotunda.service-solutions.com/en-US/Pages/SearchResults.aspx?CKey=( (CatalogLevel1_Name_en-US:"Electric Vehicle Equipment" AND CatalogLevel2_Name_en-US:"EV Charging") )&CTitle=EV Charging&CSelectedKey=CatalogLevel2_Name_en-US:"EV Charging"|Electric Vehicle Equipment > EV Charging

The DC chargers are made by Power Electronics (NB 120 and NB 240) and are Ford branded.

Here are all the Model E equipment requirements: https://rotunda.service-solutions.com/en-US/Pages/RotundaEV.aspx

 

[Logal727]

Here are the Ford chargers dealers will buy: https://rotunda.service-solutions.com/en-US/Pages/SearchResults.aspx?CKey=( (CatalogLevel1_Name_en-US:"Electric Vehicle Equipment" AND CatalogLevel2_Name_en-US:"EV Charging") )&CTitle=EV Charging&CSelectedKey=CatalogLevel2_Name_en-US:"EV Charging"|Electric Vehicle Equipment > EV Charging

The DC chargers are made by Power Electronics (NB 120 and NB 240) and are Ford branded.

Here are all the Model E equipment requirements: https://rotunda.service-solutions.com/en-US/Pages/RotundaEV.aspx

This looks like what they use on the assembly line when they do the final charge check

 

[Mirak]

Oh, I dunno. Cats and dogs can be very polarizing. And let’s not even get into the Disco channel. Some people prefer Classical. ??

My ship has a nice fish tank. Who doesn’t like that?

 

[BMT1071]

Perhaps but I don't know if that's ever been a car problem. Frequently a charger problem, of course, but I don't remember hearing of a car that had a problem limiting the power incorrectly. Doesn't mean it couldn't happen, of course, but that's what the dealership would need to weigh -- the frequency of such problems occurring where they need to test high power DCFC, the cost of driving to the nearest station, and the cost of spending a bundle to install it themselves.

All while recognizing that a lot more DCFC will probably be going in every year anyway.

If a customer brings their car to the dealer stating that it is a car problem the dealer needs to duplicate the complaint. Driving to another location and hoping for an available DCFC adds time and difficulty to the diagnosis. The tech would likely also need to bring diagnostic equipment and tools along to complete the testing. If they did not bring everything they needed that would further increase the time to diagnose the issue. Ford would not pay for any of this time.

 

[X1Nightmare]

I know the dealer I work at is committed to the Model E transition, not sure about others in the area though. It's a tough sell. From my understanding the other 2 Ford stores in the auto group are not doing it, just ours, and honestly I'm really glad we are signing up to be apart of it

 

[dbsb3233]

This looks like what they use on the assembly line when they do the final charge check

I wonder what it costs to install one of those 120kw-ers? There's a lot more involved than just slapping an L2 charger on the side wall of the building. Gotta be significant construction cost to tear up the pavement/sidewalk and replace it, to wire it, etc. And does a dealership typically have that much power available on it's own panel, or does it take a whole new power feed, and maybe it's own dedicated transformer?

I assume $85k is just to buy the charger. Are we talking like $200k by the time it's all added up?

And who will set the price for customers?

 

[dbsb3233]

If a customer brings their car to the dealer stating that it is a car problem the dealer needs to duplicate the complaint. Driving to another location and hoping for an available DCFC adds time and difficulty to the diagnosis. The tech would likely also need to bring diagnostic equipment and tools along to complete the testing. If they did not bring everything they needed that would further increase the time to diagnose the issue. Ford would not pay for any of this time.

I'd guess 90% of the time, the diagnosis is right from the car's own data, without even needing to take it to do a test charge. That's becoming more and more prevalent, particularly for the more technical/computerized aspects of the car.

When they replaced my HVBJB, they drove the car 38 miles to test it afterword. I assume it's not terribly unusual to take the car out on a drive if needed.

Ultimately it should be left to each dealer to decide that for themselves, IMO. For EV certified dealers that don't have a DCFC for 50 miles, they probably want one. But those that have one nearby (which is usually the case in most big cities), they shouldn't have to. Maybe at some point in the future, the volume might justify most every EV service center to have one onsite, but we're nowhere close to that now, and probably never will be. Any more than they need a gas pump onsite to test gas flow into the tank.

 

[dbsb3233]

I know the dealer I work at is committed to the Model E transition, not sure about others in the area though. It's a tough sell. From my understanding the other 2 Ford stores in the auto group are not doing it, just ours, and honestly I'm really glad we are signing up to be apart of it

Current EV certified Ford dealers already had to spend a bunch of money on training and equipment (like a special lift that doesn't damage the battery). Now coming back and requiring hundred of $thousands more for a DCFC charger is pretty crappy. Some that already spent a bunch probably wish they could get their money back from the first round now, had they known this was coming. Seems a little bait&switch-ish.

 

[BMT1071]

I'd guess 90% of the time, the diagnosis is right from the car's own data, without even needing to take it to do a test charge. That's becoming more and more prevalent, particularly for the more technical/computerized aspects of the car.

When they replaced my HVBJB, they drove the car 38 miles to test it afterword. I assume it's not terribly unusual to take the car out on a drive if needed.

Ultimately it should be left to each dealer to decide that for themselves, IMO. For EV certified dealers that don't have a DCFC for 50 miles, they probably want one. But those that have one nearby (which is usually the case in most big cities), they shouldn't have to. Maybe at some point in the future, the volume might justify most every EV service center to have one onsite, but we're nowhere close to that now, and probably never will be. Any more than they need a gas pump onsite to test gas flow into the tank.

You can continue to believe whatever you want. I was a dealership service tech for 20 years. I am trying to help you understand how things actually work. Obviously you are not interested in learning.
I'm out.

 

[DadzBoyz]

You don't like to hang out in a dealer waiting room and watch non-offensive television content like the cats and dogs channel? cause even the weather channel is too political for some people

This was the other part of a previous post I made.
The whole Model E dealer program is half baked.
What Ford misses is where the mature charging network solutions are going to go. Tesla is doing one-offs to show where this is going, with movies, diners,
The irony of the charging networks is that ice cars can refill in 5 minutes, and they have a whole convenience store, sandwich shop, Coffee bar, etc.
EV’s need 10, 20, 30, 40 minutes and they’re at a Wal-Mart, hotel, rest stop (nothing there).
The amount of time that it takes to charge, is an opportunity. Ford should create experiences at their dealerships. Test Drives, Car Updates while you wait, coffee, food, videos (auto makers pay to put their cars in shows and movies, show those).
Again, the problem lies in the dealer model. The same group of yahoos, that are marking up cars $5k a $20k+ don’t have the vision, creativity, or commitment to invest in or provide great customer experiences, and the dealer model and laws prevent the manufacturer from doing it themselves….
The manufacturers are going to have to get more creative.

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