Hotel Charging Etiquette

[babgvant]

Anyone who parks in a charging space and the car is not charging is exactly the same kind of person who parks in a handicap space when they are not handicapped.

Having a disability is a protected class. It's much worse to park in a disabled spot than to inconvenience someone. They are both selfish, but one of these things is beyond selfish.

And it is the same as someone who parks in front of a gas pump and leaves their car there while they eat dinner nearby. It is selfish, inconsiderate behavior. I am surprised you think it is "the right way". It is the opposite of the right way.

I really struggle with what you're saying here. Fueling an ICE car is a 10-15 min thing. Fueling a EV can take hours. These are vastly different paradigms. Doing something while your car is charging is The Way.

Why should you sit in the car while it's charging? I never said you should abandon it beyond the time when it is charging. Starbucks is putting chargers in its lots for exactly this reason.

When your car is charged, take a break from dinner and move it. You don't own the charging space just because you own a BEV.

Sorry, but you clearly misunderstood what I said. Feel free to quote the bit where I said you should abandon the car.

Edit: On second read, I think I figured out the disconnect here. You probably missed the "slow DCFC", and "charging" (i.e. if you're still charging, the battery isn't full) bits.

For full context: I arrived at a restaurant with a slow DCFC (~50kW) in Davenport IA at ~10%, plugged the car, went inside and had a leisurely sit-down - while the car charged. There aren't any DCFC on the short way across IL, so you have to have a good SoC to drive that way, especially if you have a bike rack on the car, and it's 35F with a 25mph headwind the whole way. Sitting in the restaurant long enough to get the car to 95% means I could make the jump to the EA in Elgin (got there at 3%).

Maybe we can dial back the hostility a bit.

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[babgvant]

Your "need" to charge ends at 100%. There's no guess if you need more or not. Anything beyond that is potentially impacting someone else, which I define as selfishness.

As for the "need" - other than a full 100% ... There's something about people charging because they can which is a phenomenon I don't understand. While I can't assume the difference between the two when arriving at a charger, they exist and their need is really just a want.

Everything else you said is an attempt to justify selfish actions in my opinion. Not only do I consider it to be wrong, but so does the law. Most chargers have signs that clearly state "while charging" language. When you are idling, you are not charging. If there's a number for tow, I'm calling it.

I believe the only point that I made was that "need" is hard to categorize. How is that selfish?

If you agree that anything under 100% can be OK, then we agree. That didn't seem to be what you were saying before.

Totally on-board that letting the car sit idle (i.e. not charging) for long periods of time in a charging spot during waking periods of the day is selfish. Don't remember saying otherwise. It's all there for review...

Perhaps the disconnect comes in the nuance. I wouldn't set an alarm to wake up and move my car in the middle of the night, but I also wouldn't have that problem because arriving at the hotel with a SoC where that's a consideration isn't great planning IMO.

If you're L2 charging then there's probably some acceptable grace period associated with what defines "long periods of time". If the cars going to be charging for 6 hours, it's probably OK to miss the "gotta move the car" thing by more than 5 min.

I just don't understand how anyone can justify hogging a charger. Maybe there's not a lot of EVs in Chicago, but in California it's often times very hard to get a spot. Last time I had to DCFC I had to wait for a spot and someone was at 100% - 116 minutes and nowhere to be found. My commute home was extended because someone was selfish.

That's clearly unacceptable, whether there are open spots or not. Nothing I said should have indicated that I think the opposite. Not sure how you got that impression.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

People are mostly arguing over semantics here. Don’t ice a charging spot. Don’t parked in a handicapped spot unless you qualify. Don’t idle in a charging spot when you’ve reached 100% or your target charge. Don’t decide you know what someone on a charger needs to charge to as justification for disconnecting them.

 

[mkhuffman]

Having a disability is a protected class. It's much worse to park in a disabled spot than to inconvenience someone. They are both selfish, but one of these things is beyond selfish.

WTH is a "protected class"? I don't give a crap what the government decides is "protected". I care about basic morality and treating people with respect. If you have a handicap sticker on your car, and you are perfectly capable of walking from a normal parking space yet you still use the handicap one, you are selfish and inconsiderate. Those spaces should be only used by people who need them, not by people who have conned the government into giving them a license plate or mirror hanger with the handicap symbol on it.

So to me, parking in a handicap space when you don't need it is the same thing as parking in a charging space when you don't need it. Both are equally selfish and equally display some sort of distorted entitlement mentality that is beyond me.

I really struggle with what you're saying here. Fueling an ICE car is a 10-15 min thing. Fueling a EV can take hours. These are vastly different paradigms. Doing something while your car is charging is The Way.

Why should you sit in the car while it's charging? I never said you should abandon it beyond the time when it is charging. Starbucks is putting chargers in its lots for exactly this reason.

So it appears there is a misunderstanding. Todd posted, and I posted, that parking at a gas pump after refueling (so not refueling, the car is just sitting there, blocking the pump from others) is just as rude, selfish and inconsiderate as parking in a charging space and leaving your car there after it is done charging.

I agree, charging takes a long time, and leaving your car to charge while eating is expected behavior and totally acceptable. Leaving it there after it is done, or worse yet, parking in a charging space and not plugging in is rude, inconsiderate and selfish. That is what we were referring to. I think you probably agree.

Maybe we can dial back the hostility a bit.

Yes, since it appears to be misplaced. But no, I will not tone down hostility toward people who hog charging spaces and block them from others who need to use them. You don't appear to be one of them, so I apologize for the misplaced hostility. It is reserved for others. And it is not going away.

 

[RickMachE]

I saw that "protected class" and said "how long to @mkhuffman goes off on guberment"? ?

This is the way I look at it, and yes I understand not everyone will look at it the same way:

1. All of these chargers list the kW delivered. If you are at 20% SOC and it's a 7kW charger then you know that if you plug in at 10pm it won't be done until 8am. My point is that you can easily know, via the app or basic math when you will be full. Most of these aren't really fast L2 chargers. Therefore, if you want to sleep, do some basic math and go to the charger when you know it'll be done when you wake up.
2. Set an alarm if you don't want to do math.
3. Don't charge unless you actually need it. A lot of people will just charge because they can. If you are plugging in at 8pm and it'll be done at 11pm, it's not likely you'll actually need that amount of charge.

Ultimately, not unplugging, in my opinion, is just selfish. You are weighing 2 things, your sleep vs another persons ability to drive a vehicle. In many cases, which is the same as parking in a handicap spot illegally, people only think about themselves.

When you drive an ICE vehicle do you park at a gas pump (after it's filled up) while you go into Starbucks across the street for an hour long zoom meeting while drinking a Frapachino? That would be rude but with EV's, for some reason, people don't see it the same.

Here's a post at a resort I frequent every other month in Newport Beach. My mentality regarding charging etiquette has always been the same based on my below review. Many people complain because they basically get hit with $10 for idling. I think it's great that they charge the way they do because it means that vehicles will only charge for less than 3 hours or more than 7-8 hours.

Your post is ridiculous. Not ridiculous in the reasoning, that's pretty much right on (except for setting an alarm in the middle of the night).

What's ridiculous is you believe, or assume, that the majority of people have any ability to convert a SOC, a battery size, a charger's output (not to mention the loss), and determine when a vehicle will be done charging. Clearly you must associate with people only in the tech industry in California... Seriously, you have to be kidding.

91kw battery w 20% state of charge = 73kW needed with a 7kW charger delivering 6kW to the car means I need 12 hours or more. You expect the common American to do that? Not a chance in hell. I'd wager that 60 - 70% of the population isn't smart enough to do that basic math [note - if you find a math error above, I reserve the right to change the numbers].

Your review screams "I know how to do math, and you're too stupid", which in fact they are. It's a resort in Newport Beach, don't they have valet service?

I will say that plugging in a PHEV at a hotel is simply rude, because the highway range is next to non-existent.

 

[RickMachE]

Anyone who parks their vehicle at a gas pump, starts the gas pumping, and then goes inside the store is likely in violation of the law, i.e. a local ordinance. Gas pumps can fail to shut off.

 

[mkhuffman]

I saw that "protected class" and said "how long to @mkhuffman goes off on guberment"? ?



Your post is ridiculous. Not ridiculous in the reasoning, that's pretty much right on (except for setting an alarm in the middle of the night).

What's ridiculous is you believe, or assume, that the majority of people have any ability to convert a SOC, a battery size, a charger's output (not to mention the loss), and determine when a vehicle will be done charging. Clearly you must associate with people only in the tech industry in California... Seriously, you have to be kidding.

91kw battery w 20% state of charge = 73kW needed with a 7kW charger delivering 6kW to the car means I need 12 hours or more. You expect the common American to do that? Not a chance in hell. I'd wager that 60 - 70% of the population isn't smart enough to do that basic math [note - if you find a math error above, I reserve the right to change the numbers].

Your review screams "I know how to do math, and you're too stupid", which in fact they are. It's a resort in Newport Beach, don't they have valet service?

I will say that plugging in a PHEV at a hotel is simply rude, because the highway range is next to non-existent.

FordPass tells you when the car will be finished charging. 6th grade math skills are not required. I am sure all BEVs have a similar, and yet more sophisticated, app that does the same thing.

 

[RickMachE]

FordPass tells you when the car will be finished charging. 6th grade math skills are not required. I am sure all BEVs have a similar, and yet more sophisticated, app that does the same thing.

Wait, really? FordPass is off by hours. It's not even close. And, if someone parks in next to me and it's a shared power charger, there goes my time.

I won't park my car at a charger and go to sleep if it's at 80% or more. I'll look outside, and if there are other charging spaces at 11PM, it's staying there all night. If it's the only space, I'll move it.

If you arrive after most people go to bed and expect a charging spot to be left open for you, you're kidding yourself. I'm certainly not waking up, getting dressed, and moving my car thinking that there's someone who is arriving at 3AM needing a charge. Have a backup plan.

I will also reiterate that California is absolutely not representative of the rest of the country when it comes to charging at all, including hotels. I have never seen a DC charging location with more than 10 chargers, most have 4. Most hotels have 1 or 2, if any, and most hotels don't have any. Most hotels have ancient piece of crap chargers too. 7kW is almost unheard of, most are 5 or lower. Rarely do they look like they're less than 5 years old. When they are fully, it's almost always by non-EVs. And complaining to the desk clerk often results in "we have car chargers"?

That's why I applauded Drury Inns which has to code your key to the chargers or they won't work. They also had the 4 spaces in the back, out of the way, and clearly signed and painted. Most put them right up front next to the Diamond Honors spot, and some idiot parks in them.

 

[mkhuffman]

Wait, really? FordPass is off by hours. It's not even close. And, if someone parks in next to me and it's a shared power charger, there goes my time.

I won't park my car at a charger and go to sleep if it's at 80% or more. I'll look outside, and if there are other charging spaces at 11PM, it's staying there all night. If it's the only space, I'll move it.

If you arrive after most people go to bed and expect a charging spot to be left open for you, you're kidding yourself. I'm certainly not waking up, getting dressed, and moving my car thinking that there's someone who is arriving at 3AM needing a charge. Have a backup plan.

I will also reiterate that California is absolutely not representative of the rest of the country when it comes to charging at all, including hotels. I have never seen a DC charging location with more than 10 chargers, most have 4. Most hotels have 1 or 2, if any, and most hotels don't have any. Most hotels have ancient piece of crap chargers too. 7kW is almost unheard of, most are 5 or lower. Rarely do they look like they're less than 5 years old. When they are fully, it's almost always by non-EVs. And complaining to the desk clerk often results in "we have car chargers"?

That's why I applauded Drury Inns which has to code your key to the chargers or they won't work. They also had the 4 spaces in the back, out of the way, and clearly signed and painted. Most put them right up front next to the Diamond Honors spot, and some idiot parks in them.

Yep, all true. Except I have found FP to be very accurate for me. Last week at my hotel it predicted my car would be finished charging at around 6 AM. It was still charging when I went down there at 5:45, but it was practically done.

I have not used a shared charger yet...

 

[Mach1E]

I always find the threads on this subject amusing.

Everyone feels so entitled to their share of “free stuff” and expects everyone else to follow their own made up rules on what’s “fair.”

Just assume that everyone else (and you for that matter) are going to be selfish and only looking out for what they need and you’ll be fine.

Bottom line? Assume that you won’t get what you need from the “free charger” and don’t rely on them. If they’re available? Awesome! And if you’re courteous about them? Great! But unless you assume everyone else sucks…… prepare to be disappointed.

Standing in line and waiting your turn is a very “American” concept.

Just don’t try to do that if you go anywhere in Asia and try to get on a train or subway!

 

[mkhuffman]

assume everyone else sucks

Yes, especially when it comes to sharing "free" chargers.

 

[babgvant]

FordPass tells you when the car will be finished charging. 6th grade math skills are not required. I am sure all BEVs have a similar, and yet more sophisticated, app that does the same thing.

FWIW, the estimate FordPass provides me is not useful. It's often pessimistic by several hours. No idea why. They recently updated the app to include the charge rate, so maybe it will get better. I haven't had a chance to really have a look at this yet.

All that said, even if was accurate when you first looked at it, this is a more complex thing than just "do the math".

Pre-app update, how did you know the charge rate on a MME?

If it's not displayed on the EVSE in some way, the only way I've figured out how is with a BT(LE) OBDII dongle. Is it realistic to expect normal people to have one of these?

Let's ignore all of that and say that everyone has a good way to figure out the rate when you plug in and/or the app provides a solid guesstimate. The rate can change.

Many of the public L2 chargers that I've used are shared devices. When one car is plugged in, you get X kW, when two are it's .5X kW. Someone plugging in, or unplugging, during your session will impact your done time.

Some people don't use apps with their car. If you don't use FordPass you have almost no way of knowing when your car will finish charging.

 

[babgvant]

WTH is a "protected class"? I don't give a crap what the government decides is "protected". I care about basic morality and treating people with respect.

Protected means we as a society have agreed that we don't need to figure out who's sense of morality applies. It's can be hard to apply the mkhuffman's craps given metric more broadly.

If you have a handicap sticker on your car, and you are perfectly capable of walking from a normal parking space yet you still use the handicap one, you are selfish and inconsiderate. Those spaces should be only used by people who need them, not by people who have conned the government into giving them a license plate or mirror hanger with the handicap symbol on it.

This is a tough one, and somewhat relevant to how we ended up here.

I totally agree that people who are able bodied shouldn't apply for, use, etc. a disabled placard or parking space.

It can be difficult to know if someone is "able bodied" just by looking at them. Someone who looks fine can have a very valid disability. Seeing them, it would be very easy to put them in the bucket of "people who have conned the government...". It's easy to judge them as selfish, inconsiderate, government conners, when they may have some valid need that you are blind to.

So to me, parking in a handicap space when you don't need it is the same thing as parking in a charging space when you don't need it. Both are equally selfish and equally display some sort of distorted entitlement mentality that is beyond me.

Acknowledged. Respectfully, I don't see many things on a binary scale. This is one of them.

 

[DevSecOps]

It's a resort in Newport Beach, don't they have valet service?

I don't think they do, but they might. I never pay for valet because I enjoy walking. I'm the guy who parks at the back of a parking lot. It's also an ownership resort, not a hotel so I just don't know.

What's ridiculous is you believe, or assume, that the majority of people have any ability to convert a SOC, a battery size, a charger's output (not to mention the loss), and determine when a vehicle will be done charging.

I also said, or "via an app". Not only does it normally say the time of completion in FP but it also normally gives this value in the app for the charger as well. So unless both are wildly inaccurate you should have a round-about time.

My degree is in mechanical engineering, which I don't use at all now. I guess basic math isn't something I find to be a foreign concept. You don't even have to be exact, just round a few numbers and get a guestimate. I think most EV owners know how long it takes to charge on L2 at home. For example, if they are at 70% SOC they know damn well that plugging in at 8pm isn't gonna require a full night charge.

In reality, IDGAF what one does, but they should be prepared to get their car out of a tow lot if not charging or hogging a spot well after being complete. I have zero patience for inconsiderate, entitled people.

 

[Mach1E]

My degree is in mechanical engineering,

I guess basic math isn't something I find to be a foreign concept.

I have zero patience

These statements seem redundant. ??

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