Installing High Rise Condo Chargers

[ChehRob]

There are an entire raft of concerns when a high-rise building is looking at installing chargers. I will list some of the issues and provide more technical details as requested.

1. It is expensive. In a single family residence I would have done it myself, and cost would likely have been under a thousand. The two condos I have both involved costs hitting about the $6000 level. I ascribed the cost to the housing, and not to the car (to make myself feel a little better!). I was on the committee to do one of the installations. The other condo has deferred because of the high costs.

2. Our state now requires condos to have a plan for those who want EV chargers. The costs need to be borne by those wanting them, and not by other residents. This rule hit us the the middle of installation, and we had to hire expensive attorneys to make our plan legal.

3. One of the first things is to have a commercial electrician assess how much power is available for EV charging. In our Kitsap County condo, we had more than ample power for everyone to have a 40-amp charger (actual charging 32 amp). This is plenty fast enough for overnight charging.

4. Most condos have an electric room which holds the incoming power cabinets, and also the individual unit meters. Our just switched over to smarter meters (I don't know how smart).

5. There is not room to run individual wires from a unit condo meter to the assigned parking space(s) for that unit. The bad news is that this means condos need a separate metering system for the EV chargers. It also means that the parking levels need to have Wi-Fi so that the charging units can talk to the metering companies. This cost us several thousand dollars.

6. There are only a few companies to provide charging units, metering etc.

7. Any wiring in a high-rise building is going to be far more expensive than wiring in a single-family residence. Safety, engineering, installation are all complex. Wiring needs to be in conduit. We needed utility cabinets on each of three levels of parking.

8. The technology is not time-tested. Another word might be 'crappy'. You think Ford does poorly. Wait till you see have bad the metered charging stations do it. You also have to pay a hundred or two for the privilege of using their software, and a 10%+ premium over the cost of the electricity.

9. Complexity, here is all who are involved with charging via our Wallbox: the Installer, WallBox cloud, the Wallbox charger, Ford Pass, Ford company cloud, my MME, my iPhone. Some of the communications are Wi-Fi, others are Bluetooth. Both are prone to failure. Two days ago all of this failed - six months after installation. Oddly, the charging itself has almost been reliable - communications abysmal.

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[VindictivePantz]

I can't find the article, (but I believe it was from Australia) where there was an idea that anyone who bought an EV in an apartment /condo complex would "donate" their charger for L1 charging. The idea was then that eventually most of not all spaces would have charging capability, costs would be relatively low to equip spaces with the electrical runs (especially if there was lightning nearby,) and there would be no more ICE'ing.

Other than L1 not being fast, it'd be good in major metro areas where you might not drive as much.

The long term solve is better battery tech, improved permitting, scaling and simplifying the tech itself.

Just thought it was interesting and creative.

 

[AliRafiee]

Does it need to go to an assigned space where the EV owner lives? I say a common area with 3-4 L2 chargers that cost $1-2 per hour is reasonable.

 

[ChehRob]

Ali... It could be, and that might satisfy the state law. but our condo has no extra parking spaces which would be used, and trying to take away someone's assigned spaces would be like touching a 3rd rail.

 

[TheVirtualTim]

A friend of mine has a condo in a high-rise building (about 40 floors). They installed a number of Chargepoint dual chargers for the entire building (I think there are 4 of them - they can technically charge up to 8 cars at the same time.)

But I thought it was interested how they did this. They had long had a valet parking service for residents who want it (and guests). So they added the chargers in the valet parking area on the first floor of the parking deck. If you want your car charged, you just pull in and ask the valet to charge it.

You have to have a ChargePoint account … because that’s how you pay for the charge session. I didn’t have a physical card, but I was able to activate the charger using my phone (most residents who use the service regularly just get the Chargepoint RFID card and leave it in the car so the valet can activate it).

One of the nice things about it being part of the valet service is that the valet will move a car out of the charging stall (when the charge is complete) to make room for another car that needs a charge.

When I visited, the power was CHEAP. I paid 10¢/kwh for the charging session — but I did have to tip the valet.

 

[CYBER-O]

There are an entire raft of concerns when a high-rise building is looking at installing chargers. I will list some of the issues and provide more technical details as requested.

3. One of the first things is to have a commercial electrician assess how much power is available for EV charging. In our Kitsap County condo, we had more than ample power for everyone to have a 40-amp charger (actual charging 32 amp). This is plenty fast enough for overnight charging.

Kitsap County huh... I know the area! I'm in Vancouver (BC) and used to love driving my '93 Limited Edition Canary Yellow 'vert down to Port Orchard for the annual Mustangs on the Waterfront show but alas, I no longer have it.
Yes, condos have a lot to conquer when it comes to EV charging. Which is why I am determined to try and hang onto my townhome here where I've installed a 50A charger running at 48A on a 60A circuit and not "downsize" to condo living! I am one of the first few in a 37 unit complex to install EV charging and now the complex is scrambling to figure out the overall BC Hydro feed. They don't want to accidentally trip the trip the breakers on the 3 main hydro feeds. 37 x 100A each should be 3700A Hydro feed but no, Hydro only designed the feeds to provide a fraction of that as not all 37 units should never all be drawing their main 100A breakers simultaneously...

 

[dtbaker61]

There are an entire raft of concerns when a high-rise building is looking at installing chargers. I will list some of the issues and provide more technical details as requested.

1. It is expensive. In a single family residence I would have done it myself, and cost would likely have been under a thousand. The two condos I have both involved costs hitting about the $6000 level. I ascribed the cost to the housing, and not to the car (to make myself feel a little better!). I was on the committee to do one of the installations. The other condo has deferred because of the high costs.

2. Our state now requires condos to have a plan for those who want EV chargers. The costs need to be borne by those wanting them, and not by other residents. This rule hit us the the middle of installation, and we had to hire expensive attorneys to make our plan legal.

3. One of the first things is to have a commercial electrician assess how much power is available for EV charging. In our Kitsap County condo, we had more than ample power for everyone to have a 40-amp charger (actual charging 32 amp). This is plenty fast enough for overnight charging.

4. Most condos have an electric room which holds the incoming power cabinets, and also the individual unit meters. Our just switched over to smarter meters (I don't know how smart).

5. There is not room to run individual wires from a unit condo meter to the assigned parking space(s) for that unit. The bad news is that this means condos need a separate metering system for the EV chargers. It also means that the parking levels need to have Wi-Fi so that the charging units can talk to the metering companies. This cost us several thousand dollars.

6. There are only a few companies to provide charging units, metering etc.

7. Any wiring in a high-rise building is going to be far more expensive than wiring in a single-family residence. Safety, engineering, installation are all complex. Wiring needs to be in conduit. We needed utility cabinets on each of three levels of parking.

8. The technology is not time-tested. Another word might be 'crappy'. You think Ford does poorly. Wait till you see have bad the metered charging stations do it. You also have to pay a hundred or two for the privilege of using their software, and a 10%+ premium over the cost of the electricity.

9. Complexity, here is all who are involved with charging via our Wallbox: the Installer, WallBox cloud, the Wallbox charger, Ford Pass, Ford company cloud, my MME, my iPhone. Some of the communications are Wi-Fi, others are Bluetooth. Both are prone to failure. Two days ago all of this failed - six months after installation. Oddly, the charging itself has almost been reliable - communications abysmal.

I think the most practical way to retrofit car parking lots is to 'lease' assigned parking spots, and just put in Level 1 (120vAC) outlets. The lease rate could be based on the retail cost of electricity and the 'average' number of hours a car could possibly charge.... or even assume a full 24hours. no software, and low cost for the complex.

i.e. if a condo owner 'activates' their outlet, the monthly cost is .12*24*30 = $86/month (assuming retail cost for electricity is .12/kWhr

This will not fill the average EV overnight, but it would get ya 30 miles of range, which MIGHT cover daily commute, and certainly reduce the amount you'd have to buy from DCFC.

 

[CYBER-O]

The '93 and my '05 Redfire GT

traded places for this (which I drove daily for 11 years)...

 

[dtbaker61]

Ali... It could be, and that might satisfy the state law. but our condo has no extra parking spaces which would be used, and trying to take away someone's assigned spaces would be like touching a 3rd rail.

if you already have assigned parking.... The easy fix is to just install 120v outlets at spaces willing to 'add' Level-1 charging. It won't fill you up overnight, but can be done inexpensively without major electrical upgrade to building most likely. Seems like a reasonable compromise, and avoids the huge expense of separately metering chargers.

 

[djwildstar]

There are an entire raft of concerns when a high-rise building is looking at installing chargers. I will list some of the issues and provide more technical details as requested.

Interesting. A couple of thoughts immediately come to mind:

You can get by with a lot less charging power than you think. The typical commute is under 40 miles, or roughly 20kWh. A 15A 240V circuit will provide 2.88kW of charging power, or 22kWh for an 8-hour charging session (and most people are home 10 to 12 hours).

If you have to go to a metering system for the EV chargers, it's worth investigating chargers that can bill via a smartphone app and/or RFID card. That way you don't have to have assigned spaces -- residents with EVs can park in any open EV space, initiate charging via their app or card, and get billed for actual electricity delivered.

This also means that you could do a power-sharing network -- a single 100A circuit from the electrical room to a subpanel near the chargers, and then wire multiple chargers to the subpanel. If there's a 100A subpanel and 8 chargers in use, each driver gets 2.4kW, which is just enough to recharge an average day's commute in 9 hours or so. However, with the power-sharing network, as each vehicle hits its charge target, the remaining vehicles get more power, up to whatever the maximum power level for an individual charger is. Drivers get billed for the electricity they needed for their vehicle.

If you have the capacity and need more chargers, there can be one of these set-ups on each floor or zone of your parking structure (each with their own subpanel and power-sharing network). The general idea would be to provide "enough" chargers and incentives to avoid charger drama.

 

[troublebot]

My high-rise in Portland, OR just has a bunch of Chargepoint networked chargers on the first main parking level. $0.20/kwh on 6.6kw chargers. Idle charge is $2.50/hr if you don't move your car after charging is complete, which will rack up real quick if you forget about it but I rarely see anyone overstay for long, so it appears to be effective. It is primarily a resident garage but we're near some downtown landmarks so there is some paid public parking too.

My assumption is they contracted Chargepoint to install and maintain the chargers and Chargepoint is getting all or the majority of the related fees. However the building is less than 10 years old and I think it was probably designed with that capacity in mind.

Anyway, in your case I maybe would see if you can have an electrician identify a bank of spaces that would be easiest to provide 240V outlets to, have EV users opt-in (with a fee associated) to be reassigned to those spaces and the current assignees of those spaces are reassigned to non-EV spaces. Maybe give them a credit (part/all of the fees the EV owners paid?) or something for the inconvenience of being moved to one of the spaces previously occupied by an EV owner. A couple hundred bucks would help me get over it pretty quickly.

You can charge a premium for the EV-charging spaces, as well. Even if the spaces are otherwise included with the condo, they need to pony up an extra $100/month or whatever to be assigned an EV space, this will offset the install costs over time.

Give the EV owners the option to use their own L1/L2 charger or to rent one from the building (the old Cable Modem trick).

 

[Jtbuster]

Ali... It could be, and that might satisfy the state law. but our condo has no extra parking spaces which would be used, and trying to take away someone's assigned spaces would be like touching a 3rd rail.

Oh no, not the 3rd rail!

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