"Key Not Detected" - CarPlay's fault?

[dml105]

I use PaaK exclusively. It works well almost every time: I approach the car, the car unlocks, I get in and start the ignition. But about half the time, I start to drive off, and I get "Key Not Detected" flashing in my instrument cluster. The car continues to drive, but if I were to stop the car and get out, I may have difficulty getting back in.

I think the problem is wireless Apple CarPlay. I've noticed that if I disable CarPlay, the "Key Not Detected" goes away. In fact, I've never received "Key Not Detected" when CarPlay was disabled.

Anyone have similar experiences?

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[DevSecOps]

CarPlay isn't connected when you are outside of the vehicle and it's turned off.

Lately a few of us have noticed, and talked about it on Discord, that PaaK seems to be a little worse. Likely a FordPass issue and nothing to do with CarPlay.

Let me explain why you would normally get the Key Not Detected message. The car has a number of bluetooth sensors controlled by various modules including the RFA, BCM and comms modules. Those sensors attempt to determine your location to the car using BLE. This helps the car determine if you are on the drivers side or passenger so that it can open and unlock only the correct door. When inside the car it determines that your phone is within the cabin. Otherwise someone could start the car while you are outside of it with your phone in your pocket. Many times when you keep the phone on your left side this can trigger the car to think the phone is too far away. The sensors for the cabin are dead smack in the middle, so moving the phone to the right normally resolves that.

Nonetheless, PaaK issues have been caused by older firmware on the modules, FordPass and some phones just have issues with PaaK regardless of the car being fully up to date. This is due to the large number of different chip manufacturers, BlueTooth firmwares etc.

Here's the radio (sensor) locations for reference:

 

[Neil4Real]

CarPlay isn't connected when you are outside of the vehicle and it's turned off.

Lately a few of us have noticed, and talked about it on Discord, that PaaK seems to be a little worse. Likely a FordPass issue and nothing to do with CarPlay.

What is actually interesting about this, is my car DOES seem to hang on to CarPlay for quite a long time when it is fully off. I've turned my car off, gotten out and stood next to my car, with the door closed, talking to my wife or kids in the garage, trying to connect to my home's Wi-Fi because my cell service is crap and it keeps reverting to CarPlay. Where, on the iPhone, it shows that your Wi-Fi is off and you click it on, it says this will disconnect CarPlay, even though nothing is on in my MME, I click disconnect, it turns Wi-Fi on for probably a second or two and then goes back to off. Repeat. Stays like this for at least 5 to 10 minutes.

 

[DevSecOps]

What is actually interesting about this, is my car DOES seem to hang on to CarPlay for quite a long time when it is fully off. I've turned my car off, gotten out and stood next to my car, with the door closed, talking to my wife or kids in the garage, trying to connect to my home's Wi-Fi because my cell service is crap and it keeps reverting to CarPlay. Where, on the iPhone, it shows that your Wi-Fi is off and you click it on, it says this will disconnect CarPlay, even though nothing is on in my MME, I click disconnect, it turns Wi-Fi on for probably a second or two and then goes back to off. Repeat. Stays like this for at least 5 to 10 minutes.

I think this was introduced more recently. I've noticed this with AA for the last month/2 whereas previously it didn't have that issue. But either way, Bluetooth is capable of multiple simultaneous connections so the connection to the car via PaaK shouldn't have anything to do with AA or CarPlay.

 

[Neil4Real]

I think this was introduced more recently. I've noticed this with AA for the last month/2 whereas previously it didn't have that issue. But either way, Bluetooth is capable of multiple simultaneous connections so the connection to the car via PaaK shouldn't have anything to do with AA or CarPlay.

I wonder why? Maybe to improve reliability or something? I don't like it lol or at least I want Apple to fix it, when I say disconnect CarPlay and let me use my Wi-Fi, don't immediately reconnect!

 

[JohnnyForensic]

A lot of this seems to have to do with phone position. If you open the door with the phone (in hand works best), then put the phone down around the center console before pressing Start, it’s almost always a winner.

Have your phone in your pocket on top of your leg? It usually works. Mostly.

Have your phone in your left front pocket down to the side of your leg? It may work. Maybe.

The proximity to the sensor seems to be the “key“ (SEE WHAT I DID THERE?!) to making it work smoothly. If you have your phone in your right hand and push the door button, for example, it almost always works. If it’s in your pocket nearest the car, it usually works. If it’s in your pocket and your body is between you and the car, it often doesn’t work.

 

[DevSecOps]

I wonder why? Maybe to improve reliability or something? I don't like it lol or at least I want Apple to fix it, when I say disconnect CarPlay and let me use my Wi-Fi, don't immediately reconnect!

Ohhhh, the immediate re-connection is because the car is telling the phone to connect via bluetooth. If you turn off Bluetooth it won't automatically re-connect. The reason it's doing that is because it thinks it had a wifi crash and it's attempting to recover.

 

[Neil4Real]

Ohhhh, the immediate re-connection is because the car is telling the phone to connect via bluetooth. If you turn off Bluetooth it won't automatically re-connect. The reason it's doing that is because it thinks it had a wifi crash and it's attempting to recover.

Ahh, okay, I'll give that a try, didn't think of Bluetooth being involved since it only messes with my Wi-Fi on the phone, but that makes sense! Thank you, sir.

 

[DevSecOps]

Ahh, okay, I'll give that a try, didn't think of Bluetooth being involved since it only messes with my Wi-Fi on the phone, but that makes sense! Thank you, sir.

Unfortunately, disabling BT kills PaaK though so it's a double edged sword. With AA there's a wireless toggle which works well to solve this issue.

 

[dml105]

CarPlay isn't connected when you are outside of the vehicle and it's turned off.

Are you sure?

I think CarPlay is still trying to negotiate with the car when the car is off. Every now and then, I get an error on my phone when using Maps saying something like "I cannot find the connection to Mustang Mach-e - using last known battery level."

Also, after the recent OTA update, PaaK was operating *magnificently* until I plugged in a location in Apple Maps while outside the range of the vehicle. It hasn't worked consistently since. So, I'd like to revisit whether CarPlay is part of the problem.

 

[DevSecOps]

Are you sure?

I think CarPlay is still trying to negotiate with the car when the car is off. Every now and then, I get an error on my phone when using Maps saying something like "I cannot find the connection to Mustang Mach-e - using last known battery level."

Also, after the recent OTA update, PaaK was operating *magnificently* until I plugged in a location in Apple Maps while outside the range of the vehicle. It hasn't worked consistently since. So, I'd like to revisit whether CarPlay is part of the problem.

Something on the phone OS level could be possible. What your phone tries to do I don't know. iOS isn't my forte. The car however isn't going to accept a carplay connection when it's off. There are times of lag on shutdown, but that's not when initiating a connection.

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