Losing a few percentage after charging?

[phil]

Thank you for being unnecessarily pedantic. The operative point is correct.

Thank you for being unnecessarily humorless and thin-skinned.

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[TD1273]

This has been happening on a fairly regular basis. I have a charge schedule set to a number like 85% overnight. I get a FordPass notification that it is charged to 85%, but when I go out and start the car it’s at like 84 or 83%. Anyone else experience this?

the car is still plugged in, so it shouldn’t be losing anything, even with remote start or departure preconditioning, right? Why would the battery be losing charge while plugged in over a short period of time?

Yes but ours is the other direction. I charge to 80% but when I go leave for somewhere it is actual at 82 or 83 according to the car

 

[timbop]

Yes but ours is the other direction. I charge to 80% but when I go leave for somewhere it is actual at 82 or 83 according to the car

It's still the same issue: the electrical potential stored in the battery is hard to measure exactly, and it changes with temperature. While liquids can expand and contract slightly, generally speaking the effect is minimal and their volume is easier to measure than electrical energy. The fact that the state of charge is given in percentage points gives the illusion that it is measured more precisely than it actually is - they probably should have stuck with a gauge that reads in eights and everyone would be blissfully unaware.

 

[mkhuffman]

Yes but ours is the other direction. I charge to 80% but when I go leave for somewhere it is actual at 82 or 83 according to the car

That means the battery pack is cooling off. A colder batter has less capacity so a specific SoCD will be higher if the battery cools. That makes sense. Less SoCD when the battery cools does not make sense to me.

 

[MacherAWD]

That means the battery pack is cooling off. A colder batter has less capacity so a specific SoCD will be higher if the battery cools. That makes sense. Less SoCD when the battery cools does not make sense to me.

Interesting, I have noticed this only the last few weeks, I charge to 85%, the next morning the car reads 88%. I have a 2021, any chance the unlocked battery is now being read? So the car thinks it's charging it's 68kw to 85, but it's actually 70kw, so the car thinks higher?

 

[mkhuffman]

Interesting, I have noticed this only the last few weeks, I charge to 85%, the next morning the car reads 88%. I have a 2021, any chance the unlocked battery is now being read? So the car thinks it's charging it's 68kw to 85, but it's actually 70kw, so the car thinks higher?

That is probably not what is happening. Likely it is just the battery cooling.

If you have gotten the HVBJB OTA, you have the bigger battery capacity. It was an update that happened before that one, but that update was cumulative. My 2021 got the increased capacity in Feb of 2022 via FDRS updates the dealer did for me.

 

[Ford Motor Company]

Thanks. That makes sense. I have recently started to delay my charging to like 4am since I usually only need about 10% to get to my target. Thinking was that if I delay to charge till early morning, the charging will warm up the battery and not need as much preconditioning.

But what doesn’t make sense is that if the battery cooled off and now the percentage is a tad lower, seems like the charger should recognize that and top it off since I’m still well within my charging time window.

Hi there! If you send over a private message with your VIN and dealership information, I'd be happy to look into this for you.

 

[DarkStang]

I got an OBD dongle to see some more data in CarScanner and noticed something odd that I suspected before. I have always thought my car is not using my 240v charger for power when remote starting. I have a Grizzl-E that has a light that blinks green when supplying power. When I remote start, the light is the solid green standby mode when plugged in.

In CarScanner, I can now see that the charger power is negligible, only like 0.1 kW, while the HVB and heater are drawing about 3 kW. Wondering if this is what’s draining a few percentage because it’s not drawing from the wall first as expected. Not sure if there is a setting I’m missing, but in Ford Pass, I have that “remote start while unplugged” unchecked within the departure time menu. I’ll have to see if departure times are also drawing from battery instead of wall, but no idea why it would be doing this.

 

[timbop]

I got an OBD dongle to see some more data in CarScanner and noticed something odd that I suspected before. I have always thought my car is not using my 240v charger for power when remote starting. I have a Grizzl-E that has a light that blinks green when supplying power. When I remote start, the light is the solid green standby mode when plugged in.

In CarScanner, I can now see that the charger power is negligible, only like 0.1 kW, while the HVB and heater are drawing about 3 kW. Wondering if this is what’s draining a few percentage because it’s not drawing from the wall first as expected. Not sure if there is a setting I’m missing, but in Ford Pass, I have that “remote start while unplugged” unchecked within the departure time menu. I’ll have to see if departure times are also drawing from battery instead of wall, but no idea why it would be doing this.

AHA, the plot thickens. Do you happen set the charging times and target percentage in the EVSE/charger or in the car? Otherwise, that behavior is not what is advertised...

 

[DarkStang]

Yeah, I never trust the app. I’ve only had it successfully update a departure time like 1/100 times. So I always set in car.

But there is that cryptic toggle button in the app about allowing remote start when unplugged. Not sure why it’s even in the departure times menu since it says remote start, but I don’t think it does anything either way. I have it off and I can remote start unplugged just fine. Turned on, no difference either.

 

[BMT1071]

Yeah, I never trust the app. I’ve only had it successfully update a departure time like 1/100 times. So I always set in car.

But there is that cryptic toggle button in the app about allowing remote start when unplugged. Not sure why it’s even in the departure times menu since it says remote start, but I don’t think it does anything either way. I have it off and I can remote start unplugged just fine. Turned on, no difference either.

Having that toggled on allows the car to use the departure time if it is unplugged. Toggled off the departure times only work if the car is plugged in.

 

[Hammered]

As heat leaves the battery, it's got less energy to give. The inverse happens when it heats up. 1% per 10 degrees temp delta should be expected. However in colder temps it can really fall off as it's not a linear relation based on the chemistry. This is true of most batteries and isn't unique to lithium.

This is a temp / power curve for a lithium ion discharged at 1c, in this case it's a 3ah battery being discharged at 3 amps.

 

[DarkStang]

Having that toggled on allows the car to use the departure time if it is unplugged. Toggled off the departure times only work if the car is plugged in.

That’s what I figured, so I keep it turned off because I thought it would lead to the situation I’m experiencing now, which is using the battery instead of the wall. Weird that they chose to use the wording “remote start” in this section since it’s not really the same as remote start. I’ll have to investigate my departure time tomorrow to see if it shows anything different, but remote start appears to be pulling from battery even when plugged in.

 

[Ford Motor Company]

Yeah, I never trust the app. I’ve only had it successfully update a departure time like 1/100 times. So I always set in car.

But there is that cryptic toggle button in the app about allowing remote start when unplugged. Not sure why it’s even in the departure times menu since it says remote start, but I don’t think it does anything either way. I have it off and I can remote start unplugged just fine. Turned on, no difference either.

Good morning! If you are still experiencing app connectivity concerns, feel free to send us a private message with your VIN and dealership info. I can look into this for you.

 

[ChuckA]

Thanks. That makes sense. I have recently started to delay my charging to like 4am since I usually only need about 10% to get to my target. Thinking was that if I delay to charge till early morning, the charging will warm up the battery and not need as much preconditioning.

But what doesn’t make sense is that if the battery cooled off and now the percentage is a tad lower, seems like the charger should recognize that and top it off since I’m still well within my charging time window.

Preconditioning consumes kWh faster then the EVSE charges, therefore at the immediate end of preconditioning you may have lost SOC before giving it time to replace the kWh used.

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