Mach-e 99 kwh Battery: How did they do it?

zhackwyatt

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I'm sorry this is over your head. Let me help:

Battery make electric motor go round and round. Motor make wheels go round and round. Big battery let wheels go round faster than small battery. Big battery might make Mach e go really really fast. Ford beat both Porsche and Tesla with big battery. Ford engineers deserve big shouts of hooray for beating everyone. Big battery means all sorts of fast Mach e's might come to playground. We all very happy about that.
You might think you're brilliant and witty with these pathetic, useless, tiresome, and juvenile posts but you are sadly mistaken. Clearly your coworkers have you at the top of their lists of people that need a punch in the throat.

:rolleyes:👋🎉
So hard for me to not feed the trolls...
 

timbop

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LYTMCQ

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If the Mach-E battery is 100kWh and it gets 270 miles out of it (370Wh/mi), there are two answers. Ford is inefficient as Tesla does 322 miles from 80 kWh battery (242Wh/mi) or Ford is keeping a large reserve or a combo of both.

EV's lose 25% for range on day to day charging/usage to preserve the battery. EV's lose another 25% in winter. Car mfg's can use the additional battery to shield owners from these issues so that the 270 miles will have no derations for Winter driving and battery can be charged to "100%" (270 miles/80kWh?) daily and it can maintain fast charger rate to "100%", Since the 100% is really just 80%, the battery degradation issues are addressed.
 

mark360

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If the Mach-E battery is 100kWh and it gets 270 miles out of it (370Wh/mi), there are two answers. Ford is inefficient as Tesla does 322 miles from 80 kWh battery (242Wh/mi) or Ford is keeping a large reserve or a combo of both.

EV's lose 25% for range on day to day charging/usage to preserve the battery. EV's lose another 25% in winter. Car mfg's can use the additional battery to shield owners from these issues so that the 270 miles will have no derations for Winter driving and battery can be charged to "100%" (270 miles/80kWh?) daily and it can maintain fast charger rate to "100%", Since the 100% is really just 80%, the battery degradation issues are addressed.
Interesting, but really makes no sense. How will the car adaptly allow more KWs just because the heater is on? Confused on that one.

I think the car will outperform their range numbers by a good bit, their only limiting factor is how much they want to pad the lower end of the battery. We know charging to 100% can reduce the battery's life if it sits after charging to 100%, but going down and running out of battery is FAR worse for it.

I am guessing they pad a 10% buffer in the 99kw pack. 90KW usable. Tesla pads about 2kw, so they have 78kw usable (if it's 80kw pack in Y). 10KW pad should account for any aerodynamic inefficiency and inverter inefficient. We have to remember the power must be transferred from DC to AC when going to the motors, and you loose some range with that. Tesla could have a more efficient DC to AC converter and slightly more efficient motors, but I doubt it would be any noticable difference (maybe 1-2%).

I think they will hit the 315 mile EPA for the Mach E RWD LR.
 
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silverelan

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Interesting, but really makes no sense. How will the car adaptly allow more KWs just because the heater is on? Confused on that one.

I think the car will outperform their range numbers by a good bit, their only limiting factor is how much they want to pad the lower end of the battery. We know charging to 100% can reduce the battery's life if it sits after charging to 100%, but going down and running out of battery is FAR worse for it.

I am guessing they pad a 10% buffer in the 99kw pack. 90KW usable. Tesla pads about 2kw, so they have 78kw usable (if it's 80kw pack in Y). 10KW pad should account for any aerodynamic inefficiency and inverter inefficient. We have to remember the power must be transferred from DC to AC when going to the motors, and you loose some range with that. Tesla could have a more efficient DC to AC converter and slightly more efficient motors, but I doubt it would be any noticable difference (maybe 1-2%).

I think they will hit the 315 mile EPA for the Mach E RWD LR.
I agree with your conclusions. That aligns with what I've seen on YouTube and seems reasonable enough.

Small niggle though, you are confusing kWh (energy) and kW(power). To reduce confusion, think of it this way.

kW = horsepower
kWh = gasoline

The Mustang Mach-E has a 210kW (282hp) main motor with a 99kWh (3 gallon equivalent) battery.

Thanks!
 
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FredT

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I think the car will outperform their range numbers by a good bit, their only limiting factor is how much they want to pad the lower end of the battery. We know charging to 100% can reduce the battery's life if it sits after charging to 100%, but going down and running out of battery is FAR worse for it.
I hope that you are right, but personally I am pessimistic and think that we are going to be be disappointed in the end. Recent history has shown that aside from a few smaller front-wheel drive cars (Bolt, Korean cars) no one is getting the kind of efficiency that Tesla gets. The Mach E is a big, heavy car like e-tron, EQC, and Ipace, and unless Ford has figured out some magic sauce that the others have not, I think the range is going to come in right about where they've been telling us. I hope I'm wrong and you're right. I'm tired of being disappointed.
 

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I hope that you are right, but personally I am pessimistic and think that we are going to be be disappointed in the end. Recent history has shown that aside from a few smaller front-wheel drive cars (Bolt, Korean cars) no one is getting the kind of efficiency that Tesla gets. The Mach E is a big, heavy car like e-tron, EQC, and Ipace, and unless Ford has figured out some magic sauce that the others have not, I think the range is going to come in right about where they've been telling us. I hope I'm wrong and you're right. I'm tired of being disappointed.
KIA, Hyundai, GM, Nissan, Peugeot and others haven't had a problem getting excellent range out of their battery packs. The Kona Electric and Bolt EV are at basically 260 EPA miles on mid-60kWh packs. Even taking into account the vehicle size difference, exceeding 270 miles on 90kWh of available energy should be pretty doable.
 

mark360

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I hope that you are right, but personally I am pessimistic and think that we are going to be be disappointed in the end. Recent history has shown that aside from a few smaller front-wheel drive cars (Bolt, Korean cars) no one is getting the kind of efficiency that Tesla gets. The Mach E is a big, heavy car like e-tron, EQC, and Ipace, and unless Ford has figured out some magic sauce that the others have not, I think the range is going to come in right about where they've been telling us. I hope I'm wrong and you're right. I'm tired of being disappointed.
Yeah, Just take a look at the battery pack size. The Model X has the same size batter pack and goes 295 miles (prior to new pack). That car is much bigger and heavier.

99kw is 99kw. Ford has stated WLTP range of 373 miles as the target for RWD.

The Model X does 507KM WLTP

Mach E claiming 600KM WLTP


Why is there such a huge disparity between the two? Why would the Model X perform so much worse than a Mach E? No way ford is going to be off 60 miles on the WLTP testing. Unless they really derate the battery's usable amount.
 

mark360

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I hope that you are right, but personally I am pessimistic and think that we are going to be be disappointed in the end. Recent history has shown that aside from a few smaller front-wheel drive cars (Bolt, Korean cars) no one is getting the kind of efficiency that Tesla gets. The Mach E is a big, heavy car like e-tron, EQC, and Ipace, and unless Ford has figured out some magic sauce that the others have not, I think the range is going to come in right about where they've been telling us. I hope I'm wrong and you're right. I'm tired of being disappointed.
The E-Tron only has 83KW available in a 95KW battery. That explains the 204 mile epa vs 295 epa for the Model X. The Model X has roughly 20% more with 98kw usable in a 100kw battery.

The E-Tron also has worse aerodynamics. Has a worse AWD efficiency setup as well. If the E-Tron used all it's pack availability and went with a RWD only version you would be looking at closer to 285 miles EPA.

There is your difference.
 

Billyk24

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Yeah, Just take a look at the battery pack size. The Model X has the same size batter pack and goes 295 miles (prior to new pack). That car is much bigger and heavier.

99kw is 99kw. Ford has stated WLTP range of 373 miles as the target for RWD.

The Model X does 507KM WLTP

Mach E claiming 600KM WLTP


Why is there such a huge disparity between the two? Why would the Model X perform so much worse than a Mach E? No way ford is going to be off 60 miles on the WLTP testing. Unless they really derate the battery's usable amount.
Maybe Ford is sandbagging more than you would believe. Their discontinued CMax Energi was capable of over 5 miles per kW so why wouldn't the Mach E get 4 miles per kW?
 

FredT

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The E-Tron only has 83KW available in a 95KW battery. That explains the 204 mile epa vs 295 epa for the Model X. The Model X has roughly 20% more with 98kw usable in a 100kw battery.

The E-Tron also has worse aerodynamics.
There's a big difference in efficiency between the two: EPA 46 kWh/100 miles e-tron, 35 kWh Model X. I-pace is 44, Taycan 49. If Mach E hits Ford's number, it will match Model X, leaving it far behind Model Y.
 

FredT

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There's a big difference in efficiency between the two: EPA 46 kWh/100 miles e-tron, 35 kWh Model X. I-pace is 44, Taycan 49. If Mach E hits Ford's number, it will match Model X, leaving it far behind Model Y.
Because no one besides Tesla has been able to do it in a pure EV. It's rare even for Tesla.

Oops, getting my posts confused. Sorry.
 
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FredT

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Maybe Ford is sandbagging more than you would believe. Their discontinued CMax Energi was capable of over 5 miles per kW so why wouldn't the Mach E get 4 miles per kW?
Because no one besides Tesla has been able to do it in a pure EV. It's rare even for Tesla.

And as far as C-max is concerned, maybe it was possible for some people to get that in some conditions, but EPA rating was 35 kWh/100 miles, or 2.85 mile/kWh.
 

Billyk24

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Because no one besides Tesla has been able to do it in a pure EV. It's rare even for Tesla.

And as far as C-max is concerned, maybe it was possible for some people to get that in some conditions, but EPA rating was 35 kWh/100 miles, or 2.85 mile/kWh.
The CMax Energi had a usable 5.6 kWh battery at new.
 
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