Mach-E = Beta Tester

[Mirak]

I agree with what you've said, but something not addressed is that a platform like the Mach E requires more than just hardware and software engineering. The piece Ford clearly hasn't grasped yet is customer support, and unless they recognize and address that the car will not go beyond a niche market space.

As a vast majority of threads here and probably elsewhere shows, the model of having dealers support the car for Ford is wholly inadequate. The car is too new, too complex, and has too little profit for dealers to do the job right. Until the car hits mass adoption or Ford offers service revenue on SOFTWARE support to dealers, the dealerships are not very interested in gaining expertise with and disseminating CORRECT information about the Mach E. The solution for Ford is to change their mindset and recognize the need for centralized software support and have a hotline with fully qualified tier 1 and 2 support techs. Some of the veterans on this forum are far more qualified at supporting the car than the existing Ford hotline staff. THAT is both unacceptable and the most significant barrier to mass adoption, IMHO.

A-freakin-men. Exactamundo. Ditto. What he said.

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[Badger_Prof]

If you own a Mach-E you are an Early Adopter (AKA Beta Tester)!

Like it or not. That is a fact, The MME is not ready for mass adoption. With all the on going issues it will take a few years for Ford to get everything refined to the point that anyone could operate one without issues.

Our job as Mach-E owners is to help Ford pave the way for the future. Our pain and suffering will payoff when the days come that EV ownership is taught in public schools as the normal way to drive. We are along way from that.

PaaK is one example. It is not a simple program. I needs to support 2 operating systems and multiple versions of each. Along with this it needs to be tested with dozens of different popular phones to make sure 90% of the customers are covered. Same thing that Tesla does and Tesla took 7 years to get it pretty smooth. Tesla customers still have issues today with some of the Tesla app updates but their mindset on ownership of the car is different then most gas and legacy car owners. Most Tesla owners accept that they are drive a cutting edge computer that will sometimes have software issues. PaaK will get better in time, but it takes a lot of time to get it working for all possible phone/OS combinations. We may have to accept that some phones will never work correctly and 90% is good enough on Ford's part. (Besides this, if you are buying a $50,000 car upgrading your cell phone so you have the best overall experience should be easy enough.).

A modern EV is a supercomputer with wheels. It is a software controlled appliance that you can drive. It is a major departure from legacy cars from the past 100 years. This software is very complicated and takes many very talented programmers to develop, maintain and troubleshoot. It takes a team. When a company like Ford spends 100 years trying to make affordable gas cars then designs an EV from scratch, it may as well be from a different company because Ford had to learn to think different to design the Mach-E. The software may have issues but the hardware is pretty damn impressive.

If we work with Ford and be patient about the little issues we will help pave the way for future EVs from Ford that are truly unplug and drive.

Everyone else we will drag into the future kicking and screaming.

Hmm…. I operate mine without issues.

 

[phil]

You can be one of the silent few that deals with what is delivered and doesn't live on the bleeding edge.

I think the expression you're looking for is "silent majority".

 

[krafty81]

The only time I have seen people taken advantage of by dealers is when the do not do their homework on the car. It can easily be ordered at MSRP with X-plan if you ask the right questions. I do not think anyone on this thread is being fair about the product. It is a very unique first year car. I love mine and can live with a few bugs. I do not use Paak - why bother when the key fob works fine? If you are going to cancel your order because of PaaK, then go ahead. I got a second key fob from my dealer for free BTW. Just ask.

 

[RedStallion]

If you own a Mach-E you are an Early Adopter (AKA Beta Tester)!

You are only speaking of yourself. I'm actually enjoying a car a lot rather than beta-testing it.

Like it or not. That is a fact, The MME is not ready for mass adoption.

Again, it's not a fact, it's your imagination.

 

[krafty81]

Yes. Free is good.

 

[kltye]

Interesting thread. One question I would like to ask when I hear of a vehicle system not working properly is, "Who wrote the software?"

It matters, IMHO. Does Ford write the Sync software? Used to be Microsoft, and if that isn't cause for alarm, what is?

Following is a reply I wrote in another forum section, if you will pardon the cut-and-paste.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ah yes, bad software. It's everywhere, isn't it? Wonder why?

As a retired quality engineer having worked for two of the major auto companies, neither of which was Ford, I can state flatly that the majority of customer problems with cars today are software related. Not all, but most.

Thought about this for a while now, and have come to the conclusion that the root cause is the reward system used to compensate system developers. There are differences, and I think it matters.

Hardware developers, both mechanical and electrical, are rewarded for innovation and quality results. If their stuff works, they benefit.

Software developers are rewarded for volume. The more lines of code produced, the more they make. This is the primary reason computer storage (memory) has skyrocketed in recent decades. Quality and efficiency are not major factors, just how many lines did you produce today.

This is the same system now engaged in the development of AI systems, which are touted as the future of all things. Some concern is justified, don't you agree?

Bad software may be the downfall of civilization as we know it.

Chiming in to say apart from PaaK, I'm 95% happy with the car - I just wish the fast charging curve is better.

However, the post quoted is... entirely devoid of facts? Microsoft wrote Windows CE, which was the OS underpinning Sync 2. The software running on top of that (for MyFordTouch) was Adobe Flash/ActionScript. There may have been some partnership between MS and Ford for support and maybe backend services, but the user-facing portion is definitely not Microsoft (according to this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8736056 it's not even entirely Ford, either).

Secondly, if I was being paid for the number of lines of code I write, I'd be able to afford a Rimac instead of buying a Mach-E with my (soon-to-be) wife. Yes, bad software developers exist, just as bad doctors or bad hardware engineers exist. Christ.

 

[buzznwood]

Chiming in to say apart from PaaK, I'm 95% happy with the car - I just wish the fast charging curve is better.

However, the post quoted is... entirely devoid of facts? Microsoft wrote Windows CE, which was the OS underpinning Sync 2. The software running on top of that (for MyFordTouch) was Adobe Flash/ActionScript. There may have been some partnership between MS and Ford for support and maybe backend services, but the user-facing portion is definitely not Microsoft (according to this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8736056 it's not even entirely Ford, either).

Secondly, if I was being paid for the number of lines of code I write, I'd be able to afford a Rimac instead of buying a Mach-E with my (soon-to-be) wife. Yes, bad software developers exist, just as bad doctors or bad hardware engineers exist. Christ.

Paak being an advertised feature should have worked out of the gate and being a beta tester for it should not be an option, if ford want people to be beta testers then by all means do it but treat it as a true beta test don't include these features on the initial spec sheet and let users opt in to try it out, that way people will accept any problems and while ford gets valuable data to be able to fix them before they go live for everyone else.

While for some having a working Paak is very important for others it is a non issue, the concern I have long term is the more time ford take to fix these issues and no doubt further bugs when other new features get added over time in an attempt at keeping up with the joneses the less resources get devoted to making other much needed improvements such as the DCFC charge curve.

When it comes to the in car user interface software side it is an area where ford need to make a large improvement or farm it out to people that can, side stepping the politics of google from a privacy standpoint with the current sync 4 now a dodo with ford moving over to android going forward hopefully they will have learnt from all the past sync mistakes from poor software to under powered hardware so while it won't help the mach-e now lets hope the refreshed model benefits.

 

[krafty81]

My badges stay on just fine...

 

[BMT1071]

That is absolutely not true. There are many users on this forum that report flawless PaaK operation. It would certainly be great if that were the case for everyone but the number of variables is too high to possibly test all of them prior to release.
Based solely on this forum it appears that PaaK is the only widespread issue. The other things you mention are basically one offs.
Oh and the badges aren't falling off. They are getting snagged by drying towels and ripped off.

 

[kltye]

That is absolutely not true. There are many users on this forum that report flawless PaaK operation. It would certainly be great if that were the case for everyone but the number of variables is too high to possibly test all of them prior to release.
Based solely on this forum it appears that PaaK is the only widespread issue. The other things you mention are basically one offs.
Oh and the badges aren't falling off. They are getting snagged by drying towels and ripped off.

I think the problem with PaaK is when it works, it works great, but when it doesn't, it's more frustrating than herding cats. I have a spare iPhone SE and PaaK works so well (left in my backpack, even!) that sometimes I wonder if I accidentally grabbed the fob on the way out of the house. My Sony Xperia, on the other hand, just WILL NOT get the car to unlock, even when the app says it's connected to the car. It'll also take like five tries before the car detects the key and starts up.

My biggest gripe is the lack of acknowledgement from Ford regarding this issue. The TSB sorta increased the reliability for people WITH PHONES THAT ALREADY WORK with it, but has done squat for phones that simply don't work with it.

 

[BMT1071]

I think the problem with PaaK is when it works, it works great, but when it doesn't, it's more frustrating than herding cats. I have a spare iPhone SE and PaaK works so well (left in my backpack, even!) that sometimes I wonder if I accidentally grabbed the fob on the way out of the house. My Sony Xperia, on the other hand, just WILL NOT get the car to unlock, even when the app says it's connected to the car. It'll also take like five tries before the car detects the key and starts up.

My biggest gripe is the lack of acknowledgement from Ford regarding this issue. The TSB sorta increased the reliability for people WITH PHONES THAT ALREADY WORK with it, but has done squat for phones that simply don't work with it.

So this is a perfect example of a variable making or breaking PaaK useability. Aside from the bulletin and forthcoming OTA, what more acknowledgement do you expect from Ford?

 

[HOFMACHFE]

I am not a fan of Paak. It has worked just fine with my phone and car but I don't want to ever use it. Never plan to use it unless I lose both of my keys. Yes. I have two key fobs. Key fob works very well just in my pocket.

My MME FE has been excellent. Considering the complexity of all the electronics and safety systems, it has moved the technological advancement significantly compared to ICE cars.

I don't feel like a beta tester. Ford has done an amazing job. Mechanically the car is extremely well built.

I am getting used to sync 4. It took a couple of weeks to get used to navigating and setting up the way I will leave it. I like the ability to setup the various car functions and save them so likely will never need to change in future.

There are a few things that I find overly complicated and not clear with sync 4 radio function. My previous cars can auto select FM radio stations and more easily make a station a favourite. That appears to be missing. Anyone figure out how to set favourite stations or have the radio auto select stations with strong signals?

 

[AZBill]

The premise here is that since it is an EV, we should expect more software issues. I completely disagree. All the ICE vehicles out there have millions of lines of code, so all the major auto makers should know how to implement software. And they should all be much better at it than Tesla.

I own a first year (2017) Bolt and the software has been virtually flawless for 4 years and 96K miles. The only intermittent issue I have ever had in the Bolt is the center display not coming on, and that might occur once or twice a year. In the 4 years I have owned the car it has only had 3 software updates. Why is that? It is because the software has worked very well.

I have had the Mach E less than a month and already had one software update and 2 app updates, and finally got PAAK to somewhat work, but not really reliably. Today I got a message telling me to pull over and stop safely and a red car on the dash, I assume that is the equivalent of a check engine light. I only have 1400 miles on the car. After parking in the store parking lot I came out and restarted the car and drove home, obviously a software glitch of some sort, not a hardware failure. I never had any issue like this on my Bolt, so my expectations are high.

 

[BMT1071]

With the negative dealer experiences you've had and all of your perceived negatives about the car it seems like playing with fire for you to buy one. I hope it works out for you.

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