Mach-E Hands-Free Active Drive Assist PRICING Announced, OTA Update Available in Q3 2021

[macchiaz-o]

Justin Teems has been sharing some photos of his Active Drive Assist test vehicles.

Here are a few in Detroit, Tennessee, somewhere in Canada, and Mont-Tremblant Provincial Park in Quebec.

 

[zhackwyatt]

I thought that was a porta potty charger at first glance.

 

[macchiaz-o]

I thought that was a porta potty charger at first glance.

When I first saw it, I was thinking that it looked eerily similar to a time travelling spacecraft.

 

[supertramp]

It's pretty cool that EuroNCAP already ranks the basic, standard CoPilot 360 higher than Tesla's AutoPilot. CoPilot Active will further distance itself from AutoPilot for less than what Tesla charges for a 'color' on the Model Y (Tesla charges $1000 for any color other than white, LOL).

Actually, if you want Red color for your future vehicle, Tesla will ask $2000.

 

[ClaudeMach-E]

Actually, if you want Red color for your future vehicle, Tesla will ask $2000.

insane

 

[efisher]

Am I missing something here? This seems like a shadow of Tesla's basic autopilot included with every Tesla at no cost and no subscription fee? Other than autopark capability, it just adds hands free driving in your lane on a very limited selection of roads, or am I mistaken? I see a lot of comparisons to FSD, but it looks like it should be compared to basic autopilot. Basic autopilot can drive in your lane on any road, not just a very limited selection.

There will be a lot of debate on the whole "Hands off the steering wheel" thing, but I have to say I prefer Tesla's approach requiring you to have your hands on the wheel. Too many things can happen that might require instant reaction from the driver... That said, Tesla has already implemented "Eye tracking" and is gathering data for activation, so I guess the point is moot. Still, IMHO, driver's should have their hands on the wheel until a car is tuly L3 or better. I'm hoping Tesla does not actually activate eye tracking for the public until they achieve L3. (Which looks to be very much on the horizon.) Ford's system is clearly L2, and that only on certain roads.

Anything that permits Hands-off is clearly NOT L2 and is L3. It may be a limited L3, but it is still L3.

 

[zhackwyatt]

When I first saw it, I was thinking that it looked eerily similar to a time travelling spacecraft.

I would have thought the same if it didn't have the white roof.

 

[efisher]

This release is describing some capabilities included in most of the Mach-Es that will be sold, as well as one OTA function (hands-free driving) that will be added next year.

SAE automation level 3 means that in specific situations and environments, like highway driving, the vehicle is in complete control. The driver's attention is not required. (The driver can play games or read or whatever.)

In my opinion, level 3 automation won't be arriving on any retail consumer, general purpose roadway vehicle any time in the next 5 or maybe even 10+ years.

In a June press release, Ford included a high level summary of the differences between Ford Co-Pilot360 and Tesla Full Self Driving Capability:

https://media.ford.com/content/ford...ot360-technology-adds-hands-free-driving.html

You are confusing L3 and L4. Take a look at the following for a clear description of each level of automation. https://www.mobileye.com/our-technology/history-autonomous-driving/

"In 2018, introduction of EyeQ®4, the tri-focal lensed camera, and higher complexity algorithms will result in substantially higher ADAS functionality, as well as initial Level 3 systems."
The premium (and properly optioned Select,) Mach E is equipped with EyeQ®4.

 

[efisher]

You're speaking of a beta that is not in general public release. The entire purpose of beta software is too identify issues so that they can be corrected. The beta is already on it's second release, and individual cars are learning locally as well. It's probably wiser to critique the finished product when it comes out in the next couple of months.

I have not had a chance to use the FSD beta myself, but stop sign and traffic light recognition in my old version is excellent. The car not only expects traffic control features in the map, but it also recognizes temporary and unlisted new signs & signals as well.

@ChasingCoral, perhaps you could explain why USAA gives my FSD equipped Teslas lower rates than any other car they insure?


Folks, there isn't anything wrong with critiquing FSD. But just jumping on a "I hate Tesla" bandwagon and ignoring facts just makes you far more biased "Fan Boys" than the worst fan boy I've seen on the Tesla forums. Anyone can play the "I saw this one thing on the internet!" game. Intelligent discussion requires more than that.

I think it is OK to criticize Tesla for Full Self Driving, if only because they have been calling it Full Self Driving for five years now when it clearly is not and hiding behind its perpetual "Beta" status. This clearly was not a beta, (which is external customer testing,) since it did not even include the ability for FSD. It was just an attempt to extract more money from gullible customers. I bet most people who paid for that option five, (or was it six?) years ago have already traded in those cars without ever getting to experience the FSD that they paid for.

 

[macchiaz-o]

You are confusing L3 and L4. Take a look at the following for a clear description of each level of automation. https://www.mobileye.com/our-technology/history-autonomous-driving/

"In 2018, introduction of EyeQ®4, the tri-focal lensed camera, and higher complexity algorithms will result in substantially higher ADAS functionality, as well as initial Level 3 systems."
The premium (and properly optioned Select,) Mach E is equipped with EyeQ®4.

I'm not confusing levels. While a system is operating under level 3 automation, the driver can do whatever he wants. That will not be the case with our Mach-Es. We need to remain attentive to the task of driving, which is why Ford is employing gaze monitoring and branding the feature as an "assist."

While Intel may advertise its SoC as capable of "initial Level 3" (what does that even mean?), this does not mean that a Mach-E is a level 3 car. SAE automation levels apply to specific driving scenarios and operations. An individual vehicle can function in levels 0, 1, or 2, depending on the driving task.

I've been wondering... Why do we even discuss automation levels as consumers? How does it help us to have this discussion?

Honest question. And I'm not singling out anyone at all. It's something I've wondered about for a long time now.

 

[woody]

I think the system is reasonably priced and will someday be useful. I am old school and still enjoy driving. Perhaps in 15+ years or so I may be interested in an auto driving system (I will be approaching "old" age by then). I will let you know how it works, if and when that happens.
I am purchasing the MachE to drive, enjoy the experience of a reliable, quality automobile and move onward in the 21st century. I trust the MachE will carry me there. Yes, you probably think me (still) crazy (after all these years), but such is life( c'est la vie ) and so it goes.
Leave the driving to me, not Greyhound!

 

[efisher]

I didn't say my "Teslas" have changed my life, I said TSLA has changed my life. TSLA is the identifier for Tesla stock. I invested heavily in TSLA a year ago, then again when the pandemic crashed that stock. Both times I was told I was being very foolish. Others online laughed at my stupidity. I took a large part of my retirement fund and bought a Y, a 3 and a lot of stock. I decided to cash out recently... Now my retirement fund is triple what it was in addition to having the two Teslas. We're considering buying a beach house in Mexico for a vacation home after the pandemic ends. Even if we do, our fund will still be much, much larger than it was pre-TSLA. So that's one reason I don't mind investing in FSD.

I'm considering the MME for a variety of reasons I've listed before. Exactly what isn't important. Yes I am very happy with both the 3 and the Y. I am also impressed with what Ford has done, and the Mach-e 1400 proves that the MME is much, much more than a "compliance" car. It's very possible that The Mach-e GT will be even better than my Y. Magneride suspension and a larger battery with higher maximum current output both point to the potential for a great car both on the drag strip and on the track too. I like the key pad for keyless entry; that will come in handy when I go kite surfing. I really, really like Ford's "Rapid Red" and it's all but certain that the MME will have better paint quality than the Y. Once I see a Mach-e GT in person, I'll decide if it fits my needs as well as the Y and my wants even better. If so, I'll buy one.

You may want to sell a bunch of that Tesla stock before Ford and others ruin your life.

 

[trutolife27]

The big thing is people here drive for work and drive for fun. We are into bigger is better then what we need. Our mindset here is so different from the rest of the world.

 

[efisher]

I'm not confusing levels. While a system is operating under level 3 automation, the driver can do whatever he wants. That will not be the case with our Mach-Es. We need to remain attentive to the task of driving, which is why Ford is employing gaze monitoring and branding the feature as an "assist."

While Intel may advertise its SoC as capable of "initial Level 3" (what does that even mean?), this does not mean that a Mach-E is a level 3 car. SAE automation levels apply to specific driving scenarios and operations. An individual vehicle can function in levels 0, 1, or 2, depending on the driving task.

I've been wondering... Why do we even discuss automation levels as consumers? How does it help us to have this discussion?

Honest question. And I'm not singling out anyone at all. It's something I've wondered about for a long time now.

Supposedly, you can take your eyes off the road in the Mach E for short periods of time (I think under 30 seconds is the threshold,) I am not sure that the criteria for level 3 is watch a movie or read a book.

I think the levels, (and a common definition of what they mean,) is useful for me as a customer because it lets me quickly know the capabilities of the car that I am buying and allows me to set my expectations. I love the adaptive cruise control in my Honda, but if I thought I was buying FSD I would be very dissatisfied. If the Mach E will let me eat a burger with both hands, or fumble with my phone searching for the right podcast while I am driving 5 hours on I95 to see my kids, I will be happy!

 

[macchiaz-o]

Supposedly, you can take your eyes off the road in the Mach E for short periods of time (I think under 30 seconds is the threshold,) I am not sure that the criteria for level 3 is watch a movie or read a book.

Ford has stated that adaptive cruise control with stop and go will allow the vehicle to remain at a complete stop for up to 30 seconds while waiting for the vehicle ahead of it to resume forward motion. That's it. We don't yet know time limits for driver inattention with Active Drive Assist.

I think the levels, (and a common definition of what they mean,) is useful for me as a customer because it lets me quickly know the capabilities of the car that I am buying and allows me to set my expectations. I love the adaptive cruise control in my Honda, but if I thought I was buying FSD I would be very dissatisfied. If the Mach E will let me eat a burger with both hands, or fumble with my phone searching for the right podcast while I am driving 5 hours on I95 to see my kids, I will be happy!

The inherent problem with level 3 is that it requires the driver to take over at any moment's notice. Yet at other times, the driver is not driving at all, per SAE's definition of its J3016 automation levels. From the chart below, for "What does the human in the driver's seat have to do?":

You are not driving when these automated driving features are engaged -- even if you are seated in "the driver's seat"

​

When the feature requests, you must drive​

​

​

It would be incredibly dangerous to release such a system to normal drivers. While the system is 100% driving on its own, the driver is lulled into a state where driving is not their concern. But then all of the sudden, he must drive! I can't see how that would possibly work, safely.

I think this is why auto manufacturers are focusing on enhancing level 2, while trying to do so in a way that detects driver inattention and alerts the driver when so detected.

Smart companies in this space are skipping Level 3 altogether. Instead, they focus on Level 2 for general consumer vehicles, and simultaneously work on level 4 for full autonomy situations in specialized, non-retail vehicles (robotaxis, commercial fleets, etc.). This is what Ford is doing -- level 2 for consumer cars, while working on level 4 via its large investment in Argo AI.

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