Mainstream = 1000-1000

kikibop

Well-Known Member
First Name
kiki
Joined
Sep 12, 2020
Threads
6
Messages
205
Reaction score
419
Location
Oakland
Vehicles
'21 Mustang Mach-E E4x Space White / '15 Prius
Occupation
Product Design
Country flag
No, but most people want to stop where they want to stop, not where there is a charging station.
have you considered the possibility that one day there will be more charging stations?
 

silverelan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2019
Threads
117
Messages
3,019
Reaction score
4,298
Location
Seattle
Vehicles
2021 Mustang Mach-E GT
Country flag
I love the attention that's been given to the car's range but the second part of the EV tech equation is charging speed/time. Tesla has been driving hard on those numbers to reduce the time spent hooked up to a DCFC.

Does anybody know if Ford has had a similar focus on this metric or are we going to be content with being half speed compared to the Mustang Mach-E's rivals?
 

kikibop

Well-Known Member
First Name
kiki
Joined
Sep 12, 2020
Threads
6
Messages
205
Reaction score
419
Location
Oakland
Vehicles
'21 Mustang Mach-E E4x Space White / '15 Prius
Occupation
Product Design
Country flag
Yes. And I considered that if there are more BEVs, they might just be as full as the gift return line on December 26. :D
but you said 'people want to stop where they want to stop ' ... One day soon there will be fast-charge stations everywhere so people do do just that. So maybe slightly less than a 1000 mile range could suffice?
 


dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
TimCO
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Threads
54
Messages
9,299
Reaction score
10,814
Location
Colorado, USA
Vehicles
2021 Mustang Mach-E FE, 2023 Bronco Sport OB
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
but you said 'people want to stop where they want to stop ' ... One day soon there will be fast-charge stations everywhere so people do do just that. So maybe slightly less than a 1000 mile range could suffice?
They won't be everywhere. And even if there ever becomes as many DCFC charging stations as gas stations, there's still the main problem... slow charging requiring that the car be babysat.

That's why DCFC charging time is a big issue too. Get that down <5 minutes and then it matches ICE. Although not sure that will ever be possible. 10 maybe. There will be compromise, the question is just how much.
 

ChasingCoral

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Feb 3, 2020
Threads
376
Messages
12,403
Reaction score
24,517
Location
Maryland
Vehicles
GB E4X FE, Leaf, Tacoma, F-150 Lightning ordered
Occupation
Retired oceanographer
Country flag
They won't be everywhere. And even if there ever becomes as many DCFC charging stations as gas stations, there's still the main problem... slow charging requiring that the car be babysat.

That's why DCFC charging time is a big issue too. Get that down <5 minutes and then it matches ICE. Although not sure that will ever be possible. 10 maybe. There will be compromise, the question is just how much.
I think at 15 you'll be fine. At gas stations you have to baby sit the car while fueling in case of spills, so you have to gas up and do whatever else. Spilled electrons aren't a problem, allowing you to walk away. While charging folks can stretch, walk around a little, go to the restroom, maybe get a snack. At 10-15 minutes folks won't feel put out. Beyond 15 it makes a difference in your behavior.
 

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
TimCO
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Threads
54
Messages
9,299
Reaction score
10,814
Location
Colorado, USA
Vehicles
2021 Mustang Mach-E FE, 2023 Bronco Sport OB
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
I think at 15 you'll be fine. At gas stations you have to baby sit the car while fueling in case of spills, so you have to gas up and do whatever else. Spilled electrons aren't a problem, allowing you to walk away. While charging folks can stretch, walk around a little, go to the restroom, maybe get a snack. At 10-15 minutes folks won't feel put out. Beyond 15 it makes a difference in your behavior.
I don't think I've ever had a spill at a gas station. The nozzle just shuts off when it gets to full. Never had one fail to do that. But if you mean we stand there while it fills, yes. Because it usually only takes about 90 seconds in a car the size of a Mach-E, so it's not even worth walking around the other side of the car to sit in it. Most gas stations in the US are rated for 10 gallons/minute flow. 10-15 gallons is a typical fill-up for most vehicles of that size. 12 is about average in our Escapes.

It's not a matter of "being fine" taking 30-40 minutes (or even 15) to refuel, it's a matter of will it dissuade potential customers? I think 30-40 minute refuels will turn off quite a few. 15 will too, but not as many. Like everything, it's a matter of degree. The shorter they can get those refuels, and the longer the range (without jacking the price up too much), the more BEVs they'll be able to sell.
 

ChasingCoral

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Feb 3, 2020
Threads
376
Messages
12,403
Reaction score
24,517
Location
Maryland
Vehicles
GB E4X FE, Leaf, Tacoma, F-150 Lightning ordered
Occupation
Retired oceanographer
Country flag
I don't think I've ever had a spill at a gas station. The nozzle just shuts off when it gets to full. Never had one fail to do that. But if you mean we stand there while it fills, yes. Because it usually only takes about 90 seconds in a car the size of a Mach-E, so it's not even worth walking around the other side of the car to sit in it. Most gas stations in the US are rated for 10 gallons/minute flow. 10-15 gallons is a typical fill-up for most vehicles of that size. 12 is about average in our Escapes.

It's not a matter of "being fine" taking 30-40 minutes (or even 15) to refuel, it's a matter of will it dissuade potential customers? I think 30-40 minute refuels will turn off quite a few. 15 will too, but not as many. Like everything, it's a matter of degree. The shorter they can get those refuels, and the longer the range (without jacking the price up too much), the more BEVs they'll be able to sell.
Yes, I’ve never seen a spill except someone who doesn’t follow instructions and tops off too far. Even then it’s just a splash. However, there’s good reason to stay with the car while filling as we’re all supposed to.

i agree 30-40 minutes will dissuade many buyers. Once it’s below 15 I’ll bet most of the concern fades away.
 

silverelan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2019
Threads
117
Messages
3,019
Reaction score
4,298
Location
Seattle
Vehicles
2021 Mustang Mach-E GT
Country flag
Saying the range and recharge time won't improve on subsequent models is like saying the original iPhone would never improve. It's a given.
I'm just hoping the charging speed of the first-gen ER / GT won't look impractically silly in 1-2 years, like an iPhone 4S does today.
 

1pt21Gigawatts

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Dec 11, 2019
Threads
9
Messages
338
Reaction score
393
Location
New York
Vehicles
2012 Toyota Camry
Occupation
Architect
Country flag
Saying the range and recharge time won't improve on subsequent models is like saying the original iPhone would never improve. It's a given.
I think the hope is that Ford would pull a Tesla and OTA a changing speed improvement, having sized the wiring in advance. A number of people, myself included, are really on the edge with 45min recharges. It makes a regular visit to my family in the Midwest from NY a 2-day trip instead of one, whereas a 200kw/30min charge would really make it more sustainable.

It took making the trip recently (quarantined) for thanksgiving to realize that adding 4hrs to a 12.5hr trip is really a headache and potential dealbreaker. 2.5hrs longer however, might just be palatable enough.
 

1pt21Gigawatts

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Dec 11, 2019
Threads
9
Messages
338
Reaction score
393
Location
New York
Vehicles
2012 Toyota Camry
Occupation
Architect
Country flag
I'm just hoping the charging speed of the first-gen ER / GT won't look impractically silly in 1-2 years, like an iPhone 4S does today.
If Ford could OTA 200kw like Apple put iOS 11 on an iPhone 4, then there’s be no problem.
Sponsored

 
 




Top