New Mach-e Platform (GE2)

llinthicum1

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I cannot locate the article, but I thought I had read that Ford is developing the next generation platform for the Mach-e by mid 2020's. This new platform would also be used for BEV Mustang Coupe and Convertible. I may be mistaken, did anyone else see article?
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ChasingCoral

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Carmel Mach E Auto

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It's unfortunate that Ford and other automakers do not seem to be developing small EVs for the US like they are for Europe. Subcompact SUV sales are booming here in the states. VW's MEB platform is very flexible and could be used as the basis for EVs in that segment, but neither VW nor Ford seem to have any such plans.

It's true that, for the time being the high cost of batteries and other EV components leads to low margins which are not ideal for small vehicles that consumers, especially those in the US, expect to be sold at relatively low prices. But, GM, Nissan, and Hyundai Motor have been able to bring Bolt, Leaf, and Ioniq prices down significantly over their lives, so the door seems to be open for others to offer similarly priced EVs. Instead, I fear the opposite will happen: those three models and their legacy platforms will soon be retired, and no successors on new low-cost dedicated EV platforms will follow any time soon.
 

db4z

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It's unfortunate that Ford and other automakers do not seem to be developing small EVs for the US like they are for Europe. Subcompact SUV sales are booming here in the states. VW's MEB platform is very flexible and could be used as the basis for EVs in that segment, but neither VW nor Ford seem to have any such plans.

It's true that, for the time being the high cost of batteries and other EV components leads to low margins which are not ideal for small vehicles that consumers, especially those in the US, expect to be sold at relatively low prices. But, GM, Nissan, and Hyundai Motor have been able to bring Bolt, Leaf, and Ioniq prices down significantly over their lives, so the door seems to be open for others to offer similarly priced EVs. Instead, I fear the opposite will happen: those three models and their legacy platforms will soon be retired, and no successors on new lower-cost dedicated EV platforms will follow any time soon.
It is difficult to fit large enough batteries for 300+ miles of range in small vehicles. Wallstreet and consumers didn't super excited about the bolt and leaf so automakers would rather go up a size and in price to hit more exciting range numbers. Europeans may accept lower range options because gasoline costs so much more that it makes cheap ice alternatives less attractive.
 


Carmel Mach E Auto

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It is difficult to fit large enough batteries for 300+ miles of range in small vehicles.
Packaging is another challenge, but GM has obviously figured it out. I agree that 300+ miles is nice future-state target, but 250 miles is plenty reasonable when you compare to what's on the market today.

Wallstreet and consumers didn't super excited about the bolt and leaf so automakers would rather go up a size and in price to hit more exciting range numbers.
And that's no surprise - those vehicles are about as dull as they come. But it doesn't have to be that way. For example, people love a Crosstrek, whatever little Jeeplets Stelantis is churning out, not to mention the droves of HR-Vs, Buick Encores, and CX-3s (now CX-30s).

If you build boring vehicles, yep, people will be bored with them. But the same basic components could come together to form something a hell of a lot more appealing. Tell me an electric Crosstrek with Bolt range and Bolt-ish pricing wouldn't be appealing. That vehicle, if it existed, could outsell the Bolt/Leaf/Ioniq combined easily, and probably the Kona and Niro EVs too. Why wait for Subaru to build it? An Electric Focus Active could steal those sales away by 2025 if they started work on it today.

Europeans may accept lower range options because gasoline costs so much more that it makes cheap ice alternatives less attractive.
The market for <= 200 mile range EVs is definitely larger in Europe than it is in the US (where it is tiny today and will likely always be). At the same time Europeans seem to be as attracted to the Teslas, Mach-Es, and whatever other longer range EVs are sold over there as we are here. VW offers shorter range battery options in Europe than they do here, but they also offer the long range ones as well.

The tech and the vehicles have global reach. Surely someone will attack the small EV market in the US at some point. It just seems like it's going to be a long wait, and that's a shame.
 

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It's unfortunate that Ford and other automakers do not seem to be developing small EVs for the US like they are for Europe. Subcompact SUV sales are booming here in the states. VW's MEB platform is very flexible and could be used as the basis for EVs in that segment, but neither VW nor Ford seem to have any such plans.

It's true that, for the time being the high cost of batteries and other EV components leads to low margins which are not ideal for small vehicles that consumers, especially those in the US, expect to be sold at relatively low prices. But, GM, Nissan, and Hyundai Motor have been able to bring Bolt, Leaf, and Ioniq prices down significantly over their lives, so the door seems to be open for others to offer similarly priced EVs. Instead, I fear the opposite will happen: those three models and their legacy platforms will soon be retired, and no successors on new low-cost dedicated EV platforms will follow any time soon.
Nobody is lining up and waiting months or years to buy a Bolt, Leaf or Ioniq.....well, maybe the Ioniq BEV but that was only available in some ZEV states if I remember correctly.

My point is, if we would buy it then manufacturers would bring more to market. GM doesn't even mention their Bolt when they talk about their EV future. Kinda a shame because those are some valid cars that should have a place in the market.
 
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llinthicum1

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The Mach-e is not a huge vehicle. It's a compact about the same size of the re-design Escape. It is a premium vehicle, but no doubt prices will come down as battery costs get cheaper. I don't think U.S consumers really are interested in sub-compact vehicles. That's why you see good sale numbers for Bronco Sports/Broncos, Explorers and low numbers for the Ecosport.
 

Carmel Mach E Auto

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I think with battery supply limited, it makes more sense to put them into higher margin vehicles.
Sure, that’s sound logic. However, as I say, there are several small, lower cost (relatively speaking) EVs on the market already, some relatively new like the Kona EV. So business cases can clearly be made. I just think it is a bit short-sighted to let this market languish as newer models ramp up in other segments.

Nobody is lining up and waiting months or years to buy a Bolt, Leaf or Ioniq.....well, maybe the Ioniq BEV but that was only available in some ZEV states if I remember correctly.

My point is, if we would buy it then manufacturers would bring more to market.
And yet the Bolt still outsells the Mach-E. So sales numbers aren’t necessarily a barrier. We know margins can be a barrier, but as noted above, existing examples show that that challenge has been handled before.

GM doesn't even mention their Bolt when they talk about their EV future. Kinda a shame because those are some valid cars that should have a place in the market.
Yes, that’s it exactly. And yet, like I say, all the pieces are there. MEB exists and can be licensed, just like Ford is doing in Europe.

The Mach-e is not a huge vehicle. It's a compact about the same size of the re-design Escape.
it’s certainly not a subcompact SUV at any rate. It’s some 20 inches longer than an ID.3 which is a very space efficient vehicle due to the dedicated EV architecture. That’s an enormous size differential.

The ID.3 obviously isn’t an SUV, but one could be twinned with it in the same way the Impreza yields the Crosstrek (and indeed, in Europe, as the Focus Active is born from the Focus). True, even VW hasn’t done that yet, but they no doubt will at some point, or at least something along those lines. Will it come to the US? I don’t know, but if could (should) and if it did, from the looks of others’ pipelines it would leave everyone else, Ford included, flat footed.

I don't think U.S consumers really are interested in sub-compact vehicles. That's why you see good sale numbers for Bronco Sports/Broncos, Explorers and low numbers for the Ecosport.
There’s a reason I didn’t mention the EcoSport - it’s not competitive. Look at the sales numbers for some of the ones I named. They may not be top 10% market vehicles, but this segment is absolutely hot, and growing. That’s why you have automakers racing to replace small passenger cars with small SUVs like the Nissan Kicks, Kia Seltos, Chevy Trailblazer, and a number of others.
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