Nickel shortages

[llinthicum1]

This is minor compared to the suffering going on in Ukraine. But, supply chain issues; e.g., nickel shortages, are going to continue to be a drag on EV production. I realize commodity prices, as well as gas, are cyclical, but this time could it be longer term issue? Thoughts?

Nickel price surge could threaten automakers' EV plans (cnbc.com)

Sponsored

 

[Socalsp3]

they can start moving into Li iron batteries which are better anyway

 

[Blue highway]

Short term many manufacturers will see increased cost for batteries... including Ford.
Medium to long term battery chemistries are already shifting to Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP). This will speed that up.

There are three chemistries used today..
lithium ferrophosphate, or lithium iron phosphate (LFP), [Tesla and most Chinese co's are shifting here]
lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide (NMC), [Ford is believed to use this type]
Lithium nickel cobalt aluminum oxide (NCA).

 

[ZuleMME]

Tesla is only shifting to LFP for low performance batteries I believe. Something about that tech doesn't allow anywhere near the amperage flow of the others which is needed for things like the Performance edition and Ford's GT. Granted if Tesla limited to 5 seconds maybe they too could jump those to LFP. lol...

 

[llinthicum1]

Yes, I saw the info about LFP batteries in the article. There are some compromises with LFP. Hopefully, OEMs are nimble enough to switch to different battery technology like LFP and solid state.

 

[llinthicum1]

Tesla is only shifting to LFP for low performance batteries I believe. Something about that tech doesn't allow anywhere near the amperage flow of the others which is needed for things like the Performance edition and Ford's GT. Granted if Tesla limited to 5 seconds maybe they too could jump those to LFP. lol...

If I read article correctly, LFP batteries are heavier adding more weight to an EV.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

if I had a US 5-cent coin for every time I've heard about this...

 

[voxel]

Short term many manufacturers will see increased cost for batteries... including Ford.
Medium to long term battery chemistries are already shifting to Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP). This will speed that up.

There are three chemistries used today..
lithium ferrophosphate, or lithium iron phosphate (LFP), [Tesla and most Chinese co's are shifting here]
lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide (NMC), [Ford is believed to use this type]
Lithium nickel cobalt aluminum oxide (NCA).

There's one more... Lithium Manganese Oxide used in the Leaf (maybe not currently?). Also relatively cheap but lower energy density than the others.

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-205-types-of-lithium-ion

I do see more EVs shifting to LFP/LiFe/A123 (whatever the name of the day is).

 

[ctenidae]

if I had a US 5-cent coin for every time I've heard about this...

I'm just looking for two to rub together.

 

[kltye]

I'm not sure LFP will be a viable replacement for all types of EVs. The lower energy density (and lower nominal voltage) is slightly offset by the fact you can cycle it more heavily than li-ion, so less buffer is needed to maintain pack longevity. The added weight and worse performance at low temperatures make it a hard sell for mobile applications though, at least with today's tech.

 

[voxel]

I'm not sure LFP will be a viable replacement for all types of EVs. The lower energy density (and lower nominal voltage) is slightly offset by the fact you can cycle it more heavily than li-ion, so less buffer is needed to maintain pack longevity. The added weight and worse performance at low temperatures make it a hard sell for mobile applications though, at least with today's tech.

Not good for performance EVs but I was like you once and doubted cold weather performance. Bjorn’s cold weather range test was enlightening and proved me wrong (see 14:14 in video). As long as the EV has a good heat pump it should not matter.

This LFP Model 3 is insanely efficient - even more so than NCA li-ion packs.



Also lower nominal voltage is meaningless as you can just series more cells together.

 

[ctenidae]

re cold weather performance, my first winter with my Tesla 3 included a lot of time at the superchargers for fillups (just have a 110v charger at home right now). Thus winter I discovered and incorporated cold weather tactics, and haven't had to supplement home charging much at all.

Point being, take cold weather reviews with a grain of salt. If you can calibrate the test results with the preconditioning routine, so much the better.

Sponsored