PAAK - Don't Be Like Me!

[JohnFoxeSheets]

I carry a fob because I have a modified Lightning fob which works with my car. The frunk button on said fob is much faster and more reliable than the FP one. But because I sometimes drive my wife's car (which has its own fob), I keep my MME fob separate from the house keys. Each has an AirTag in case I leave it somewhere. Yes, two AirTags take space, but I have big pockets (Duluth Trading Firehose Flex Cargo Pants FTW!).

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[MBCook]

Not sure why people carry a key fob. PAAK + Door Code + Passcode is a full proof system. I've literally owned the car for 3+ years now and never had an issue. The only 'major' issue was me taking the car in for a tire rotation and forgetting the key at home and the technician wouldn't allow me to drop it off with a valet mode turned on.

I always take my wallet and key out of habit after driving for about twenty years.

One day I got in my car, got where I was going, and… no wallet.

PaaK meant everything worked fine. But now I had no license, no cash, no physical cards, etc.

I turned PaaK off to prevent that. And it has a handful of times. I have a backup password set, know my door code, etc. If I’m somewhere and lose my keys I won’t be stuck.

But old habits die hard. And keys + wallet is one.

 

[Guss-E 2021]

Another potential benefit of PaaK is it appears Flipper Zero can not intercept its communication with the car for the following reasons:

It cannot decrypt secure BLE communications without access to the pairing keys.

It cannot clone your phone’s identity or FordPass credentials. It may detect BLE advertisements, but these are not sufficient to unlock or start the vehicle.

Full disclosure: That is a CoPilot response to a query. I keep my fob in a Faraday pouch as a backup for but have been using only my phone for months.

 

[Guss-E 2021]

Open phone contacts. Store a contact that you know is your car, with the codes...

Great idea Rick. Just did it.

 

[randomvoice]

I always take my wallet and key out of habit after driving for about twenty years.

One day I got in my car, got where I was going, and… no wallet.

PaaK meant everything worked fine. But now I had no license, no cash, no physical cards, etc.

I turned PaaK off to prevent that. And it has a handful of times. I have a backup password set, know my door code, etc. If I’m somewhere and lose my keys I won’t be stuck.

But old habits die hard. And keys + wallet is one.

Well it is fine if you're just not into using technology but everything you've mentioned nowadays can be done on your phone. It is much safer as well as the chances of losing your phone is slim vs losing a wallet. Safer for the car as well as there are so many videos of the radio signals from key fobs intercepted and used to steal cars from the driveway.

Apple Pay and Google Pay work just about everywhere nowadays for payments. In my state, Driver License are going digital as well and can be added to Apple Wallet next month. Costco membership which is the only other card I carry can also be added to the phone. Even debit cards nowadays can be added to banking apps and can be used digitally to withdraw cash if you really need that.

I will still carry my wallet out of habit but honestly we're at a point where we can totally ditch it if need be or keep it hidden in the car as a back up. Worst case, your phone dies but you can always use the back up code and charge it in the car and get access to your cards/license if you wait a bit or have an Apple Watch or something and it is never a concern.

 

[BlueWhale]

I put mine in the note section of my contact info. As long as you remember who you are you have it! Haha

That just makes too much sense.

 

[Lonesparrow67]

Not sure why people carry a key fob. PAAK + Door Code + Passcode is a full proof system. I've literally owned the car for 3+ years now and never had an issue. The only 'major' issue was me taking the car in for a tire rotation and forgetting the key at home and the technician wouldn't allow me to drop it off with a valet mode turned on.

It's easy...no reason not to, lol...
Takes up minial space in my pocket, I don't even really realize it's there, and I've always carried one...

Also don't have to deal with the PAAK issues that some have, and instead of remembering codes and dealing with 3 steps (PAAK + Door Code + Passcode), I simply get in, press the Start button, and off I go.....

 

[MBCook]

Well it is fine if you're just not into using technology but everything you've mentioned nowadays can be done on your phone.

Oh come on. I love tech but phones aren’t magic solutions to all life’s problems.

• My keys aren’t a risk to have my car stolen, it’s in a garage
• I love ApplePay but there are certainly places that don’t take it
• And contactless isn’t always accepted for larger transactions
• Only 10 states support digital drivers licenses, so the rest of us can’t use it
• Who knows if a business would take it
• If the police have your phone they can force you to unlock it, so I’m not keen on handing it over anyway
• Need cash for some reason? I’ve certainly had ATMs refuse debit tap for withdrawing cash
• Plenty of loyalty cards aren’t available on s phone/watch
• Can’t use my phone as house keys. Or mailbox keys. Or office keys. So I’m carrying keys no matter what.

 

[superdave80]

PAAK + Door Code + Passcode is a full proof system.

You must be new here. Welcome to the forum!

 

[randomvoice]

Oh come on. I love tech but phones aren’t magic solutions to all life’s problems.
...

My point was about your original comment about how you forgot your keys because of PAAK. Not sure why you also forgot a wallet as well because PAAK has nothing to do with a wallet but I entertained the idea as I got a lot of free time apparently this weekend lol. My point isn't arguing whether you're doing right or wrong. Heck, I still carry my wallet but it was a thought experiment about how it might not be needed.

At least in my case, all the of the above things listed can now be done on a phone. While a few gaps do remain, a lot of us are at a point where we can actually ditch the fatass keys and a wallet if need be.

My main argument points of leaving a wallet in the car and key fob at home are:

• It is safer to not carry a wallet because:
  • It can be lost or pickpocketed and you basically have a huge headache of calling countless banks and risk losing cash as well. Oh and going to the DMV to get a new license which is the worst.
• It is safer to not carry a key fob because:
  • It is one of the most bulkiest key fob I've ever had with a car
  • If you somehow lose it, you're basically shelling nearly 500 bucks or more to reprogram a new one. Twice that if you want 2
  • PAAK BLE is much more safer than having a key blast the unlock/lock codes via radio

With that said, some of what you've posted there still can be addressed by a phone (at least when I put myself as the subject)

My keys aren’t a risk to have my car stolen, it’s in a garage

The point isn't the keys get stolen but people have devices which capture the radio signals emitted from a key fob and can emit the same signal to unlock a car. It is called 'relay attack'. Basically tricks the car in thinking that a key fob is near by. PAAK uses BLE which is all digital and encrypted so cannot be hacked for the same.

Someone could easily copy the signal if they followed you to work or gym or wherever and you lock/unlock with a fob. Not saying this is the norm and it is an extreme example but your argument here isn't sound.

And contactless isn’t always accepted for larger transactions

I'm speaking from a US centric view here but that isn't an Apple or Google pay problem but more a credit card limit problem. You'll face the same limitation if you decided to swipe the card. US doesn't impose contactless limits usually unless it a weird bank specific quirk. I've literally bought a couch and some furniture and blown 5K+ in a single transaction without any issue via Apple Pay

Only 10 states support digital drivers licenses, so the rest of us can’t use it

I'll give you this. Sucks for you but again, I was speaking from my POV. This is also a temporary problem as more states onboard with RealId so hopefully this is the norm in the future

Who knows if a business would take it

Temporary problem as well. More of an educational issue vs technology issue

If the police have your phone they can force you to unlock it, so I’m not keen on handing it over anyway

You do not need to unlock your phone if your driver license is in your Apple Pay Wallet. You can double tap the power button and it will use Face ID just for the cards. With a license added there, you can show that but the phone still remains locked. They can't legally force you to unlock the phone. We're arguing extremes here but this can be easily also solved with just leaving your license in the glove box of the car like your registration if you're that paranoid.

Need cash for some reason? I’ve certainly had ATMs refuse debit tap for withdrawing cash

Fair point. I use Capital One and their ATMs have always worked. Again, not saying this is the norm but in most cases, people rarely use cash nowadays but I generally just hit that 1 ATM which does allow contactless when I really need cash which is rare.

Plenty of loyalty cards aren’t available on s phone/watch

Well most do allow some alternate identification. 99% just take a phone number so you can punch that. I do that all the time at CVS or Harris Teeter or other stores.

Can’t use my phone as house keys. Or mailbox keys. Or office keys. So I’m carrying keys no matter what.

My home has a digital lock so don't need keys. I don't carry my mailbox keys with me. It is in my home and I just take it with me and put it back if I need to get mail. Don't need to check it everyday so no point lugging around 1 more key that I can lose. My office doesn't have keys. We got badges but guess what? They're piloting a phone badge soon lol.

 

[Dana3502]

Open phone contacts. Store a contact that you know is your car, with the codes...

That's what I did! I needed it when I was in an area with no Verizon coverage. Luckily I'm not one who let's my phone die. You can access contacts with no coverage, but not with a dead battery.

 

[kflats]

Just a warning about a hidden danger to those (like me) who have set up PAAK but never rely on it and use their fob. This scenario has recently happened to me twice, and was entirely my fault.

I left my house with both phone & fob, but mistakenly left my keyring (with fob attached) at an intermediate stop. However, the PAAK worked just like it's supposed to do, and let me drive home, where i discovered i couldn't unlock my door and let myself in! Fortunately, both times I was fairly close to home and was able to recover my keys (if not my dignity) without any trouble.

Fair warning to remember your keys (or forget both keys & phone)-- don't be like me!

Little did I know that my idiocy would kick of quite the discussion - thanks to everyone who weighed in

my takeaway from all the comments is that people have varying levels of risk assessment and risk tolerance - after all, some wear belts, some wear suspenders and some wear both - heck, even some golfers wear two pairs of pants in case the get a hole in one.

Different strokes for different folks

 

[MBCook]

Little did I know that my idiocy would kick of quite the discussion - thanks to everyone who weighed in

my takeaway from all the comments is that people have varying levels of risk assessment and risk tolerance

When I did use it for a while (or accidentally ) it seemed to work quite well. I know it was a big problem early on but I’ve seen enough people who rely on it totally.

So I’d agree. Make sure you have a backup password (even if you don’t use PaaK!) and you can probably just do whatever you like best.

 

[ekopka11]

Just a warning about a hidden danger to those (like me) who have set up PAAK but never rely on it and use their fob. This scenario has recently happened to me twice, and was entirely my fault.

I left my house with both phone & fob, but mistakenly left my keyring (with fob attached) at an intermediate stop. However, the PAAK worked just like it's supposed to do, and let me drive home, where i discovered i couldn't unlock my door and let myself in! Fortunately, both times I was fairly close to home and was able to recover my keys (if not my dignity) without any trouble.

Fair warning to remember your keys (or forget both keys & phone)-- don't be like me!

 

[ChasingCoral]

That's the part I struggle with.

You can keep a note on your phone with the backup codes.

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