Question for the Solar Guru's... 🌞

[chuckles]

A few updates....

Panel mfg'r is Silfab out of WA, appears to be a quality product with a strong warranty.

Going to a hybrid battery system would spec as follows:

Enphase Encharge 10P battery for $14,900. It will provide 32 Amps of backup power (day & night) and 64 Amps of surge. It will provide power to a backed up sub-panel with 6 circuits.
OR
Enphase Encharge 5P battery for $11,900. It will provide 16 Amps of backup power (day & night) and 32 Amps of surge. It will provide power to a backed up sub-panel with 4 circuits.
Both would be eligible for the 30% tax credit.

And he said loans are typically 7-8% right now for solar packages.

I need to do some number crunching, but on the surface, I don't think this is a good investment for my scenario.

I have an Enphase full-battery-backup system.

With a "correct" installation, if I'm in a battery profile like "energy independence," Enphase will happily use up all my Encharge batteries to only get a 15-20% charge into my MME. I never want to use my tiny 10-15kWh house batteries to charge my huge 88kWh MME battery.

After talking with Enphase and my electrician, I found that had to move my Enphase CT clamps to my critical loads panel, rather than my main panel. This effectively "blinds" Enphase to my EVSE load and avoids this issue.

If I can, I charge using the Emporia Excess Solar mode, but if I need to drive in the morning, I charge at 2am with "cheap" grid power.

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[RickMachE]

Other factors to include in an analysis:

- sure, you can charge your EV for free. BUT, how much energy do you use anyway? Some people have 2 EVs with drivers putting lots of miles on each day. I just checked, and in the last month we've used under 200kWh on the Mach-E (and truck is barely used).

- are there any zoning rules or HOA rules governing placement? We have to get HOA approval, we cannot install in yard, only on roof, and only on faces of roof that face away from road. That works for us - but the people across the street can't ever have solar.

- what else would your money be doing? Most analysis ignore that the $15,000+ you are spending today might be in the market instead. If if averaged say 4% annually, in 15 years you'd have earned $12,000 more.

- how much WORK is it to manage / keep track of all this? And, WHO is doing it? We have a lot of tech in our house that I play with. If I dropped dead tomorrow, my wife would use virtually none of it, and some would simply be turned off / disconnected. We just got window blinds on large 2nd story windows after 18 years of having them 1/2 covered. Long warranty, and biggest blind company in the world, with 2 remotes (for her), I use the app and program openings and closings.

- will laws change in my state or federal level that impact this analysis? Our state changed the laws about selling electricity back, terminating all existing contracts at a future date, making solar a very poor decision for most (distribution costs are not included).

- while companies may have a good track record, if the laws change making future investment in solar a bad one, do these companies quit, killing your warranty?

- as to adding things like electric water heater, electric heat pumps, electric vibrators, make sure they're a good usage decision too. Does the electric water heater recover as fast as the gas one, and if not do you really want to go there?

 

[HuntingPudel]

Other factors to include in an analysis:
<SNIP>
we cannot install in yard, only on roof, and only on faces of roof that face away from road.
<SNIP>

Holy smokes and I thought my town was bad. The conduit had to be painted the same color as the part of the house behind it, so we have tri-colored conduit (roof color, gutter and siding color, stucco color) before the City inspector would sign off. ?‍?

 

[chuckles]

Other factors to include in an analysis:

- sure, you can charge your EV for free. BUT, how much energy do you use anyway? Some people have 2 EVs with drivers putting lots of miles on each day. I just checked, and in the last month we've used under 200kWh on the Mach-E (and truck is barely used).

- are there any zoning rules or HOA rules governing placement? We have to get HOA approval, we cannot install in yard, only on roof, and only on faces of roof that face away from road. That works for us - but the people across the street can't ever have solar.

- what else would your money be doing? Most analysis ignore that the $15,000+ you are spending today might be in the market instead. If if averaged say 4% annually, in 15 years you'd have earned $12,000 more.

- how much WORK is it to manage / keep track of all this? And, WHO is doing it? We have a lot of tech in our house that I play with. If I dropped dead tomorrow, my wife would use virtually none of it, and some would simply be turned off / disconnected. We just got window blinds on large 2nd story windows after 18 years of having them 1/2 covered. Long warranty, and biggest blind company in the world, with 2 remotes (for her), I use the app and program openings and closings.

- will laws change in my state or federal level that impact this analysis? Our state changed the laws about selling electricity back, terminating all existing contracts at a future date, making solar a very poor decision for most (distribution costs are not included).

- while companies may have a good track record, if the laws change making future investment in solar a bad one, do these companies quit, killing your warranty?

- as to adding things like electric water heater, electric heat pumps, electric vibrators, make sure they're a good usage decision too. Does the electric water heater recover as fast as the gas one, and if not do you really want to go there?

Be sure to add into the uncertainty soup the fact that energy prices may be increasing far more rapidly than any typical investment returns. PG&E energy costs in CA have more than doubled in the last 15 years. Solar energy independence may be an offer a hedge against future cost hikes (if your utility is as bonkers as PG&E!)

 

[Herbknowsit]

RickMachE brings some solid reasoning aboard the solar discussion. Anyone forking out to install solar should learn from him. But there is more to it than only dollar in-dollar out balance. IF you are conservative like me in most aspects, except for air, soil and water quality protection, you'll want to err on the side of caution. There is NO quick fix or work around for pollution if your well is poisoned or your lungs are shot. Rather than donate to environmental causes, I chose to install solar. My readings show the following in terms of positive (to me) effects. 14.8T of CO2 reduction, 39.1 KG sulfur dioxide reduction, *8.3 trees planted, 4879.7 KG savings in coal burning. The sooner we get off the oil tit the better. Disagree? Ok ...turn in your cordless power tools and throw out your cell phones. Both of those were wonky and expensive in their early days. (now you'd have to pry my Makita cordless tools from my cold, dead hands )
* most of us don't realize how important mature trees are in both absorbing airborne toxins and also prevention of flooding

 

[RickMachE]

RickMachE brings some solid reasoning aboard the solar discussion. Anyone forking out to install solar should learn from him. But there is more to it than only dollar in-dollar out balance. IF you are conservative like me in most aspects, except for air, soil and water quality protection, you'll want to err on the side of caution. There is NO quick fix or work around for pollution if your well is poisoned or your lungs are shot. Rather than donate to environmental causes, I chose to install solar. My readings show the following in terms of positive (to me) effects. 14.8T of CO2 reduction, 39.1 KG sulfur dioxide reduction, *8.3 trees planted, 4879.7 KG savings in coal burning. The sooner we get off the oil tit the better. Disagree? Ok ...turn in your cordless power tools and throw out your cell phones. Both of those were wonky and expensive in their early days. (now you'd have to pry my Makita cordless tools from my cold, dead hands )
* most of us don't realize how important mature trees are in both absorbing airborne toxins and also prevention of flooding

I agree with you, but wouldn't use the term "caution". To me, the operational issues that may arise, coupled with the potential of having to deal with issues in our retirement when we want to be doing other things, and the potential of an aged system impacting selling our home when we're ready, outweigh some of the points you mention. We have gone 100% battery / electric on many things, but didn't yet give up the gas zero turn (because electric is impractical for us), and put in 2 new high efficiency gas furnaces because in a cold Michigan winter they make more sense.

When you add in the financial aspects, mainly the very reduced payout for sending electricity back, coupled with the less than useful tax credit (in retirement tax credits are more work than they're worth much of the time), it's a no-go for us.

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