Reopening America ?

[Sweetwater]

Arghh!! You're probably the kind of guy who'd complain if others pee in the pool. Why do you care? If you don't like it, don't do it, but how do others peeing in the pool you're in affect you?

On a less sarcastic note, Israel shows how to do it right. This is how you protest without undermining your message. Although this particularly protest was about broader issues, it shows one can protest with a message that the quarantine is not justified in light of the other impacts to society (job loss, mental health, etc) without coming across as close-minded, reckless and insensitive to the unquestionable impact that COVID-19 does have. Very powerful, in my opinion.

In America we protest too. That's OK. Are you reading this Thread correctly ? We are
NOT against protesting. We are VERY concerned about the protests without PPE. These
people are not concerned if they get the virus. Then they come home to spread it among
all of us. This is what is alarming to all of us.

Sponsored

 

[eager2own]

In America we protest too. That's OK. Are you reading this Thread correctly ? We are
NOT against protesting. We are VERY concerned about the protests without PPE. These
people are not concerned if they get the virus. Then they come home to spread it among
all of us. This is what is alarming to all of us.

I think you're misunderstanding my point, but I should've clarified for those not familiar with the protest in Israel. Those protesters are wearing PPE and standing 2 meters apart. That's my point. Protest properly and the message is much more powerful... for the very reasons you raise.

 

[Ken7]

Yes but do we really know what any Govt. has done ? Korea really isn't that big.
And you do as you are told or BANG. Our testing is messed up. They now have so
many kinds I don't which to choose. No more this news that news as they all lie.
How is it the last couple years our Govt. was going bankrupt every 6 to 8 months ?
Where in the hell are they getting Trillions $$ to give away ?? Money is the evil here !!!

The CDC absolutely screwed up. First they cross-contaminated tested samples with other work they were conducting in the same lab with the virus. As a result there were many false positives. Already a 'no no'. They also wanted to keep all the testing 'in-house' despite the magnitude of the testing required. In actuality Fauci was onboard with this initially and only recently admitted to all the screw ups at the CDC.

With Trump's faith in the ability of private industry to solve problems, he knew that we needed to go to private industry to get things corrected. It was only until these private medical companies got involved that the number of tests increased exponentially. Of course it's still not where it should be, especially in light of the fact that many still argue how many tests should be conducted. Some would actually like to test 325 million people before we truly open for business. If that were the case, the U.S. might as well close up shop, it will never recover. Of course some in this camp have their own agenda, but that's a topic for another thread. However the progress, from where we started, is impressive.

Random testing conducted in Massachusets, showed 1/3 of those tested testing had antibodies for the virus. That gives us a clue that there are many many more exposed to this virus than first thought. These people, unbeknownst to them, possess some degree of immunity. More random testing should give us a better idea as to what the actual numbers might be.

When the dust settles, I'd be willing to bet the % of those truly impacted severely by the virus will be a very small % of those that have been exposed.

 

[Sweetwater]

I think you're misunderstanding my point, but I should've clarified for those not familiar with the protest in Israel. Those protesters are wearing PPE and standing 2 meters apart. That's my point. Protest properly and the message is much more powerful... for the very reasons you raise.

I don't give rat's behind about Israel. We are concerned about our protesters.
And you can SEE ppe on those people !! Anybody here see PPE in the pic ??

 

[Sweetwater]

 

[Ken7]

Very good. But you get C- for adding Fox News.

He's still going on with that? Good grief.

 

[eager2own]

I don't give rat's behind about Israel. We are concerned about our protesters.
And you can SEE ppe on those people !! Anybody here see PPE in the pic ??

You may not see in the pics. You'd have to read articles about the event to know that.
But as you don't give a rat's ass about Israel (and I assume other events), I can't really help you with that.
I started my earlier comment today noting I should know better than to dive into these discussions which, even when I try to keep comments factual or light, the thread devolves into "I don't give a rat's ass about Israel" or "can anyone else see PPE in the pic?" for no value-added reason. I'll focus on MME topics. Out.

 

[Ken7]

I don't give rat's behind about Israel. We are concerned about our protesters.
And you can SEE ppe on those people !! Anybody here see PPE in the pic ??

I always like to see how Israel is doing things since they're so innovative. They hugely outperform their size.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Arghh!! You're probably the kind of guy who'd complain if others pee in the pool. Why do you care? If you don't like it, don't do it, but how do others peeing in the pool you're in affect you?.

No, peeing in the pool doesn’t have major health consequence. However, your statement makes it appear you don’t understand the highly infectious nature of Covid-19 or how contact careless behavior can reduce productivity. I want to get the country back to work as quickly as we can but I’m not one of those who’ll choose to sacrifice someone else’s elderly parents to open non-essential businesses two weeks faster.

Yes, I’m one of those people who’s wearing a mask when I go to the store. Yes, I feel I have a responsibility to help keep everyone in the community safe through my actions and feel others should as well. Sorry if that doesn’t First your boat.

 

[Sweetwater]

I don't know why suddenly I put up with you, Your thoughts and input do
have a meaning about what we face very soon. You know as we all do that
this back to work starts up soon. We are going to be in difficult times like never
have been seen before. How we act and "do unto others" will help us. None of us
have any answers as to what may happen. I will not rush into this as yes I am
scared of the actions of the people. It's coming and no way to stop it.
Gettin better with posts : 4 - Trumps
3 - Fox News
Equals B+

 

[ChasingCoral]

How about "Reopening Michigan"? This is the Mustang Mach E Forum after all.

Things are looking up for Michigan finally. They are heading toward two of the four triggers needed for relaxing social distancing.

Widely regarded as one of the better plans for Reopening America is "National
Coronavirus Response, A Road Map to Reopening". https://www.aei.org/research-products/report/national-coronavirus-response-a-road-map-to-reopening/
This study from the American Enterprise Institute was led by Dr. Scott Gottlieb, FDA Director 2017-19. The plan has three phases, Phase 1: Slow the Spread, Phase 2: Reopen, State by State, and Phase 3: Establish Protection, then Lift All Restrictions.

It lists:
Trigger for Moving to Phase II
A state can safely proceed to Phase II when it has achieved all the following:

• A sustained reduction in cases for at least 14 days,
• Hospitals in the state are safely able to treat all patients requiring hospitalization without resorting to crisis standards of care,
• The state is able to test all people with COVID-19 symptoms, and
• The state is able to conduct active monitoring of confirmed cases and their contacts.

Let's look at where Michigan stands, thanks to the social distancing that was implemented:

• While the number of active cases has not reached the 14 days of reduction yet, Michigan has had a reduction in new cases for almost 14 days (https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-coronavirus-dashboard-cases-deaths-and-maps, https://www.michigan.gov/coronavirus/0,9753,7-406-98163_98173---,00.html)
• Hospital resource use is estimated to be well below total bed availability and dropping, while ICU bed use is dropping back to near capacity. The IHME model predicts reaching and staying below ICU capacity later this week (https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/michigan)
• At about 4,000 tests / day, Michigan is still catching up on the testing backlog but is testing more than 6x the number of new cases confirmed each day (https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-coronavirus-dashboard-cases-deaths-and-maps, https://www.michigan.gov/coronavirus/0,9753,7-406-98163_98173---,00.html)
• Michigan just launched a new volunteer contact tracing program, so this has a ways to go https://www.michigan.gov/som/0,4669,7-192-47796-526523--,00.html

The IHME model currently predicts "After May 18, 2020, relaxing social distancing may be possible with containment strategies that include testing, contact tracing, isolation, and limiting gathering size."

So, while it may still be a while for consumer confidence to return (Sweetwater's original question), there is a good chance of Ford-NA reopening operations, albeit with new restrictions, in May. Of course, the reopening of the state has to be handled carefully to prevent a large second peak in Covid-19 cases, which could also shut down manufacturing again. Outbreaks within plants will probably also result in single-plant or single-building stops and starts. However, all of this is better than remaining shut down.

Yes, there's a light at the end of the tunnel and it doesn't seem to be an oncoming train.

 

[pbojanoski]

I agree with most of what you are saying but you still seem to be missing my biggest concern:

"Would I want to conduct business with them or be out in crowds with them? Not worth the risk. Would I know which ones they were? No, and that's the scary part."

It's not just the protestors who are the problem. It's the stupid college kids who wouldn't give up their spring break parties. It's my neighbors down the street who had a party last weekend and you could hear the volleyball game in the back yard. It's the folks who continue to attend crowded church services after all the warnings were sent out and in some cases after they were banned by state order. I don't know which of these folks are my grocery store bagger, my drug store cashier, or the HVAC technician my wife had to meet with at our church. Their stupidity doesn't absolve them from responsibility for community health but their anonymity does.

It's just like gun ownership. I have a right to own my firearms. I don't have a right to go out and shoot them into the air in my suburban neighborhood. Just because I can't see where the bullet flies doesn't mean I'm not responsible for the damage it causes.

This is the point Sweetwater was making. Do you trust going out in crowds? While I can avoid these idiots' protest rallies or illegal parties, I don't know when I have to do business with them a week later when they are asymptomatic virus spreaders. That will keep me in longer than the stay-at-home orders.

The great thing about all of this is you don't have to go out until you are comfortable. If the President says he is good or your governor says he/she is good, great, but that doesn't mean you have to do anything you aren't comfortable with.

My problem and what I would guess is one of the problems the protesters don't like is that they are getting no say in when they can responsibly start opening their piece of the economy. In Pennsylvania the Governor has/will veto a bill passed by the legislature that would allow businesses that can follow CDC guidelines to reopen. Instead, he is keeping the entire state, including areas with minimal impact, locked down.

https://www.wgal.com/article/pennsylvania-capitol-protests-stay-at-home-order/32206740

https://triblive.com/local/pittsbur...-reopen-businesses-amid-coronavirus-pandemic/

I think most people want to be part of the solution, but governments are not allowing them to be. Business owners don't want themselves or their customers to get sick. Let them take responsible and known steps to mitigate the risk and reopen their businesses.

Of course you and I also have the ability to decide whether we want to go to that business or not.

We've "flattened the curve". Hospitals are laying off nurses, not being overrun with COVID-19 patients. Let's prudently get things starting to open. Learn and adjust as we go, but we need to start getting things open again.

Sponsored