Report: Toyota CEO claims EVs worsen CO2 emissions, pushes back on proposed ICE bans

[ChasingCoral]

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...o2-emissions-pushes-back-on-proposed-ice-bans
Report: Toyota CEO claims EVs worsen CO2 emissions, pushes back on proposed ICE bans

BENGT HALVORSON DECEMBER 17, 2020


Has Toyota changed its tune on electric vehicles, as it prepares to push its solid-state battery technology to market?
Earlier this month a report suggested that might be the case—which could give the company an advantage in the competitive global EV market.

It turns out that pronouncement might have been premature.
Toyota is far from bullish about the potential of electric vehicles over the next few years—at least in the context of its home market of Japan.

In a year-end news conference, Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda reportedly said that EVs will only increase carbon emissions in Japan. “The more EVs we build, the worse carbon dioxide gets,” he said, according to the Wall Street Journal.

Japan has been on the verge of following California and the UK in setting a ban on the sale of new gasoline cars from 2035. According to NHK, Japan is expected to adopt such a plan by the end of the year, but it would likely accept hybrids after 2035.


2020 Toyota Corolla Hybrid

Toyoda said that he was afraid that regulations would make (new) cars out of reach for the average person, a “flower on a high summit.”
Japan gets most of its grid energy from coal and natural gas today, but there’s a big backstory. The country has endured a decade of power issues, stemming largely back to 2011, when the country endured both an earthquake and a tsunami.

Japan was heavily reliant on nuclear energy at that time and due to damage and safety concerns it took those plants offline. Now, nearly 10 years later, only a small fraction of those are operating. That’s made the nation’s grid dirtier than it was before and, to some degree, the appeal of EVs there has waned.

Proponents of electric vehicles have said that EVs could help stabilize the grid and help create more demand for green energy. Strong investments made there before the disaster have already brought V2X ideas closer and helped lay out the technology to take advantage of that.

Toyota, as a company, has pushed to popularize its hybrid technology and roll it out to an ever-increasing percentage of its global lineup. Toyota expects that by 2025 more than 70% of its sales in Europe alone will be hybrid.

 

[trutolife27]

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...o2-emissions-pushes-back-on-proposed-ice-bans
Report: Toyota CEO claims EVs worsen CO2 emissions, pushes back on proposed ICE bans

BENGT HALVORSON DECEMBER 17, 2020


Has Toyota changed its tune on electric vehicles, as it prepares to push its solid-state battery technology to market?
Earlier this month a report suggested that might be the case—which could give the company an advantage in the competitive global EV market.

It turns out that pronouncement might have been premature.
Toyota is far from bullish about the potential of electric vehicles over the next few years—at least in the context of its home market of Japan.

In a year-end news conference, Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda reportedly said that EVs will only increase carbon emissions in Japan. “The more EVs we build, the worse carbon dioxide gets,” he said, according to the Wall Street Journal.

Japan has been on the verge of following California and the UK in setting a ban on the sale of new gasoline cars from 2035. According to NHK, Japan is expected to adopt such a plan by the end of the year, but it would likely accept hybrids after 2035.


2020 Toyota Corolla Hybrid
Toyoda said that he was afraid that regulations would make (new) cars out of reach for the average person, a “flower on a high summit.”
Japan gets most of its grid energy from coal and natural gas today, but there’s a big backstory. The country has endured a decade of power issues, stemming largely back to 2011, when the country endured both an earthquake and a tsunami.

Japan was heavily reliant on nuclear energy at that time and due to damage and safety concerns it took those plants offline. Now, nearly 10 years later, only a small fraction of those are operating. That’s made the nation’s grid dirtier than it was before and, to some degree, the appeal of EVs there has waned.

Proponents of electric vehicles have said that EVs could help stabilize the grid and help create more demand for green energy. Strong investments made there before the disaster have already brought V2X ideas closer and helped lay out the technology to take advantage of that.

Toyota, as a company, has pushed to popularize its hybrid technology and roll it out to an ever-increasing percentage of its global lineup. Toyota expects that by 2025 more than 70% of its sales in Europe alone will be hybrid.

Toyota is in a tuff spot. They have taken the losing side here the last few times. I really don't know what to say about them anymore

 

[stroszek]

This is just weak BS coming from a company whose market position is based largely on perceptions of reliability of their ICE powertrains and has backed the loser of the alternative fuel race. Even if you assume that the power you’re drawing is 100% coal EVs are way more efficient so you’re still emitting less. Obviously, the switch to EVs should accompany a switch to renewables to drive those emissions down even further.

 

[trutolife27]

What can be said about Toyota is they are higher ranked than Ford in average fleet MPG and ranked lower in Greenhouse gas emissions than Ford per the latest EPA report.

Toyota has shown greater improvement than Ford over the last 5 years in both those categories, with Ford showing only a very nominal change.

Ford is ranked next to last place, just above FCA, with the second worst performance in MPG and greenhouse emissions. It’s important to note, the emissions from F-250 and above are excluded from Ford‘s fleet average, which if included would only make Ford‘s performance significantly worse.

Toyota is ranked number one in the Green House Gas credit balance, indicating a long term positive performance.

I don’t expect Ford‘s low ranking to improve much from the low volume Mach E.

Refer to page 4 and 9 of the following for the details.

EPA Report on GHG Emissions and Fleet Average MPG

Yep, that is all nice and dandy. But at the end of the day, hybrid and ice and cars are dying. That is my point. Do you think green gas means sales? They are in a very tuff spot right now.

 

[stroszek]

If hybrid tech translated easily to BEVs Toyota would have one already and wouldn’t be doing everything possible to stop them.

 

[SnBGC]

Toyoda said that he was afraid that regulations would make (new) cars out of reach for the average person

Sounds like the same argument as when we started mandating things like seat belts, collapsible steering columns, impact adsorbing bumpers and air bags. Look how that turned out.

Interesting link. Thanks for posting.

 

[All Hat No Cattle]

Ford is ranked next to last place, just above FCA, with the second worst performance in MPG and greenhouse emissions. It’s important to note, the emissions from F-250 and above are excluded from Ford‘s fleet average, which if included would only make Ford‘s performance significantly worse.

I will assume that is correct, but it is old news.

Of course Ford is going to have higher emission totals than Toyota, etc.

When you sell a million or so pick-up trucks a year, compared to Toyota Tundra sales of about 100,000 a year, guess what? Ford is going to have higher overall emissions.

But, as I type this, Ford is delivering Hybrid 2021 F-150's with a combined EPA rating of 24 MPG, and, hallelujah, the first of 50,000 Mach-E BEV's are rolling out.

And the 2022 F-150 BEV is on the way.

The one company that is really going to get screwed by all this activity by Ford is Tesla.

No longer is Ford going to be spending hundreds of millions of dollars buying emission credits from Tesla as these changes roll in.

But more EV models are coming from myriad car makers around the world, including China’s EV-maker NIO and traditional auto makers like Volkswagen, Ford, and General Motors. That means eventually fewer car makers will need to buy regulatory credits from Tesla as they accrue their own. Investors have plenty to worry about when valuing electric-vehicle companies, and the future levels of credit sales are just another thing on the list.

https://www.barrons.com/articles/wh...atter-for-tesla-and-nio-investors-51607864401

 

[stroszek]

Are they zero emission vehicles or more emissions vehicles? Completely incoherent.

Anyways I looked those up and I don’t know what the Chinese EV market is like but they sure seem significantly overpriced for the specs.

 

[DBC]

Apart from making such an easily debunked claim, Toyota has been a total drag on BEV adoption for ten years. Not totally surprising. When you are in the top spot with given technology you don't want the technology to change. Plus it may be that its big bet on solid state batteries is not developing as it hoped, putting it far behind the industry. That's a position it's hardly used to being in.

Even GM, which is always on the wrong side of the political argument, has abandoned trying to pre-empt CARB. Not Toyota. It is in until the bitter end. That may be because if CA mandated all vehicles be zero emission in 2025 GM would likely be able to field 20 or so. Toyota would have how many? I dunno. Maybe none.

Agree with @truetolife27: No idea what to think of Toyota.

 

[Accord07]

Toyota has both Zero Emissions vehicles and a new category called Negative Emissions Vehicles. The 2021 Mirai is a Negative Emissions Vehicle which scrubs the surrounding air of pollutants, so it actually cleans the air as it's driving.

Seriously? "Negative Emissions Vehicle"? It simply filters the air flowing into the cabin, for the benefit of the occupants, and the marketing department decided to brand it "negative emission".

 

[stroszek]

I love creating negative emissions by extracting and processing natural gas into hydrogen.

 

[dbsb3233]

The headline is pretty irresponsible. He was talking about "in Japan". Japan is in a tougher spot than many countries for electricity generation. They are more dependent on coal because of their (kneejerk) shift away from nuclear and a lack of domestic-produced natural gas.

 

[DBC]

When you sell a million or so pick-up trucks a year, compared to Toyota Tundra sales of about 100,000 a year, guess what? Ford is going to have higher overall emissions.

Ya think? ????

If Toyota is in a tough spot, where does that leave Ford?
...
I think it's probably Ford that may be in the toughest spot in the entire industry, certainly not Toyota.

Electrification is more disruptive for Toyota because its advantage has always been its relationship with its suppliers, and the quality of its suppliers, and electrification makes 90% of those suppliers irrelevant.

Ford has the MEB platform (with VW) for lighter vehicles and its partnership with Rivian for heavier vehicles. It seems reasonably well positioned.

Technological disruption always shakes up the world order.

 

[DBC]

The headline is pretty irresponsible. He was talking about "in Japan". Japan is in a tougher spot than many countries for electricity generation. They are more dependent on coal because of their (kneejerk) shift away from nuclear and a lack of domestic-produced natural gas.

Fair point. However, in the US, Toyota and Lexus executives have been making similar claims while arguing their hybrids are better for CO2 than BEVs for a decade. So no pass on this since its just a continuation of its bogus claims.

 

[dbsb3233]

Sounds like the same argument as when we started mandating things like seat belts, collapsible steering columns, impact adsorbing bumpers and air bags. Look how that turned out.

Interesting link. Thanks for posting.

I think he was referring to price. Those things added a little to the cost of vehicles but nothing close to the added cost of batteries in a BEV. BEVs are still a good $15k+ more than ICE counterparts.

Hopefully by mid-decade, battery prices will come way down. They'll need to for BEVs to get deep into mainstream sales.

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