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Tax Credits

dbsb3233

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Ford will most likely do what Tesla did and lower the price. Without the Federal tax incentive there is no way that Ford would have this car priced so high.
And as Chevy is doing with the Bolt.

Just goes to show that EV tax credits are really more of a subsidy to auto manufacturers than they are to consumers.
 

eastern refugee

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I spoke with my guy who has worked for Ford for more then 20 years in LA. No one knows for sure but what they think will happen is that if you lease the car then the $7500 goes to Ford. If you buy it then you go through the tax stuff yourself. I driver about $25,000 miles a year. I am looking at leasing it on a 25,000 mile lease and use the $7500 as a down payment. California has some VERY crazy rebates. I live in Kern County and the air control pollution district gives a $3,000 cash rebate for a BEV. PG&E our electric utility gives an $800.00 cash rebates and special non-tier rates for charging. In short there is a LOT of money available. With the price of the car being reduced by $7500 the increase in the lease aspect might be not so hard and if you have negative equity for a trade in then this could seriously off set some of that as well. I also forgot to add in the Plan X pricing as well. In my opinion I am looking at this whole thing as life changing. My wife also drives 25,000 miles a year. All of the California discounts are based on THE car and NOT the household. So in short doing two leases means in reality DOUBLING the rebates...….You just have to accept that this is indeed the future and accept that in fact driving distances with a few more stops is the NEW way of life.
 

dbsb3233

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You just have to accept that this is indeed the future and accept that in fact driving distances with a few more stops is the NEW way of life.
It's a PART of the future, yes. A future that has increased options for consumers, to choose what fits best for their situation and needs. And that's a good thing.

That doesn't mean we "have to accept" distance driving has to have more lengthy stops though. My distance driving will continue to have very few 3-5 minute stops, because I'll take my ICE on road trips. But my around-home driving (which is the vast majority of my miles) will be easy home overnight charging in my Mach-e. The best of both worlds.
 

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And as Chevy is doing with the Bolt.

Just goes to show that EV tax credits are really more of a subsidy to auto manufacturers than they are to consumers.
Yes, that is exactly what they are. Just like darpa and nasa: it helps defray development costs so private businesses invest in everyone's best interests.
 

eastern refugee

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It's a PART of the future, yes. A future that has increased options for consumers, to choose what fits best for their situation and needs. And that's a good thing.

That doesn't mean we "have to accept" distance driving has to have more lengthy stops though. My distance driving will continue to have very few 3-5 minute stops, because I'll take my ICE on road trips. But my around-home driving (which is the vast majority of my miles) will be easy home overnight charging in my Mach-e. The best of both worlds.
You are right in that you do not have to accept anything except birth, death and taxes. Now that being cleared up the reality is that we live in a world where paradigms shift a lot quicker then they did in the past. In California several years ago the state of California paid $4500 I think it was to people as down payments on cars whose model years were 1999 or before. Dealers accept the cars gave a credit and were paid back by the state. My point is that the world is changing and electric cars are the future. if you choose to live in the past because it is easier that is fine as it is your choice. Anyone can rationalize anything. In my opinion I will embrace the future. If it take me a little bit longer because I have to make extra stops (which in reality is not true because I can combine stops with other purposes like rest, eat and pit stops) I will do it. I have also ALWAYS believed on long road trips it is the JOURNEY and NOT the destination that will be remembered much more.
 

dbsb3233

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You are right in that you do not have to accept anything except birth, death and taxes. Now that being cleared up the reality is that we live in a world where paradigms shift a lot quicker then they did in the past. In California several years ago the state of California paid $4500 I think it was to people as down payments on cars whose model years were 1999 or before. Dealers accept the cars gave a credit and were paid back by the state. My point is that the world is changing and electric cars are the future. if you choose to live in the past because it is easier that is fine as it is your choice. Anyone can rationalize anything. In my opinion I will embrace the future. If it take me a little bit longer because I have to make extra stops (which in reality is not true because I can combine stops with other purposes like rest, eat and pit stops) I will do it. I have also ALWAYS believed on long road trips it is the JOURNEY and NOT the destination that will be remembered much more.
That "the past vs the future" thing has always been silly IMO. It assumes everything has to be 100% one or 100% the other, which of course is absurd. The smart thing to do is to use what's the best tool for the job, whether new or old. Just because something has been around a long time doesn't mean it's inferior. In fact it usually means just the opposite -- that it's so good that other things haven't been able to surpass it yet.

In the case of BEVs, they've improved to the point that they're great for home-charge around-town use. Which is great because that's the bulk of the miles most people drive. The fact that they're usually not as good for distance road trips doesn't mean they're no good, any more than the fact they're great for around-home use means they're great for everything. This isn't an "all good" vs an "all bad" thing. BEVs are better for some purposes, while ICE is better for other purposes. They can both live in harmony. More choice, more competition, and better options for consumers. That's a good thing. That's not "rationalizing", it's just fact.

Regarding things changing faster now, that depends. BEV enthusiasts generally express dismay at how slow BEV penetration has been taking. Vehicles are long-horizon purchases with decade+ lifespans. So they're naturally much slower to shift than smaller/cheaper items.
 
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ab13

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I spoke with my guy who has worked for Ford for more then 20 years in LA. No one knows for sure but what they think will happen is that if you lease the car then the $7500 goes to Ford. If you buy it then you go through the tax stuff yourself. I driver about $25,000 miles a year. I am looking at leasing it on a 25,000 mile lease and use the $7500 as a down payment. California has some VERY crazy rebates. I live in Kern County and the air control pollution district gives a $3,000 cash rebate for a BEV. PG&E our electric utility gives an $800.00 cash rebates and special non-tier rates for charging. In short there is a LOT of money available. With the price of the car being reduced by $7500 the increase in the lease aspect might be not so hard and if you have negative equity for a trade in then this could seriously off set some of that as well. I also forgot to add in the Plan X pricing as well. In my opinion I am looking at this whole thing as life changing. My wife also drives 25,000 miles a year. All of the California discounts are based on THE car and NOT the household. So in short doing two leases means in reality DOUBLING the rebates...….You just have to accept that this is indeed the future and accept that in fact driving distances with a few more stops is the NEW way of life.
There are other CA rebates available for those without the higher income tax ranges. The Replace Your Ride program offers benefits for buying a newer vehicle and disposing of an older one. This is the South Coast AQMD site, but other districts may have this program also.

https://xappprod.aqmd.gov/RYR/
 

eastern refugee

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There are other CA rebates available for those without the higher income tax ranges. The Replace Your Ride program offers benefits for buying a newer vehicle and disposing of an older one. This is the South Coast AQMD site, but other districts may have this program also.

https://xappprod.aqmd.gov/RYR/
Thanks. You are basically saying what I am in that if you take the time to research there are significant savings that you can get for simply buying a new car.
 

LYTMCQ

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So much for doing right by the planet!
That is the purpose of the tax cut, to help cover the mfg's upfront costs on building an EV, the R&D, engineering, plant retooling, etc. Idea was after 200,000 vehicles those costs have been covered and EV has to compete with ICE on price. The 200,000 is actually larger as the tax credit ramps down over a year after that. Could apply in varying levels to 500,000 EV's.
 

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The early manufacturers that have accrued their credits are at a disadvantage now. Tesla is doing OK anyway, but GM is holding back I think, but hey are still selling the Bolt so far.
 

LYTMCQ

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The early manufacturers that have accrued their credits are at a disadvantage now.
Yes and no. The idea was they use the money to build the expertise. If they don't do that, shame on them. I think GM did that as they came out with Bolt which is a fine little EV. That should have given them the experience for the EV's they have coming to market.

Ford gets to use it now and they likely have a good argument that waiting until the tech and the demand were more evolved so they get it for the Mach-E which looks to be an excellent EV.

Having said that, I lobby my reps to drop the 200,000 and make it apply across the board to all EV's using the same current criteria of kWh battery.

1. $10.000 per car.
2. No price or income limit
3. Credit not tax break so buyers can apply to the purchase or take as cash. No there's an eco boost in hard times, people could buy EV's and put $10k in their pocket. It will lower their gasoline costs from $3k average to $1k average.

Maybe in Jan. 20 2021 as eco boost to likely still recovering economy.
 
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