Texas Tesla Tragedy

[Regularmache]

Highly unlikely. Negated by the witnesses and all the doors being closed at the crash scene. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but you’re getting into second-shooter-on-the-grassy-knoll territory.

The more likely, innocent explanation for why nobody was found in the drivers seat is that the driver door was stuck shut and the driver crawled into the back to try to escape before succumbing to the smoke.

The state of the driver seatbelt found at the crash site will pretty much definitively tell us who was where at the moment of impact. If the driver seatbelt buckle was found engaged, then it means nobody was occupying that seat because even if the driver unbuckled and crawled into the rear to escape, he never would have rebuckled the belt. If the buckle was found unengaged, then autopilot couldn’t have been running.

Well if they buckled it and then got in and sat on it with the intention of jumping in the back seat, it would stay buckled right?

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[jhalkias]

One of us believes Stupidity and completely improper operation of a vehicle is not the operators fault, but Tesla. The other believes that irresponsible, reckless operation of a vehicle causing injury or death is the operators fault.

Doesn't sound like you and I will ever agree, but I do respect your opinion.

Two words.

Lawn Darts.

Can you buy them anywhere today?

Nope.

Because of stupid reckless people.

The company made a product that if used correctly and with caution was totally safe, but the potential for danger through stupidity caused maiming and even death.

No more lawn darts. (at least not the ones with the pointy ends - I think you can buy ones with soft ends)

As a company if you know the risk is there, and you know stupid people do stupid things (hell you even encourage it) you have the societal obligation to mitigate that risk and stupidity if the way to do it is possible. Tesla keeps refusing and pointing only to the stupid people, and not take responsibility for their stupid engineering. It is not black and white. It is obvious contributory negligence.

 

[Regularmache]

I think Darwin would be disappointed at the amount of responsibility we automatically throw on all of these companies absolving the reckless choices we make.

Love the trash bags now printed with, "not a toy, don't put over your head"! We need to start a thread with the All the most obvious Warning labels out there!

 

[DBC]

IState of Texas where the accident happened, states it's illegal to drive a self driving car on the roadway ...

I see a person in the seat? Awake?

Let's go with this. First as to it being illegal to drive a self driving car on the roadway, why is Tesla selling what it purports to be a "self driving car"? Aren't they selling someone illegal? Second, as to the person in the seat (presumably awake), Tesla was explicit in saying that having a person in the seat was only necessary for legal reasons because the car was driving itself. Isn't saying you don't need anyone in the front seat an invitation to not have someone in the front seat?

The point here is Tesla is marketing a self-driving vehicle which isn't really a self-driving vehicle. Not to insult your intelligence, but the incongruity of putting out videos of people driving the car without their hands on the wheel, and saying they didn't even need to be in the driver's seat, but then having the manual admonish people who drive the car that they MUST, SIMPLY MUST, put their hands on the wheel at all times should be obvious.

What is so hard to understand here?

And let's go back to the fact that GM has had an actual hands free driving system on the market for several years and you never see any safety issues with it. Why? Obviously the reason is that GM has a safe system and Tesla doesn't.

 

[DBC]

I think Darwin would be disappointed at the amount of responsibility we automatically throw on all of these companies absolving the reckless choices we make.

You're missing the problem. As in completely missing the problem. To some extent, if people are going to be totally and impossibly stupid, and they end up dead, I regret that. It's different when you actively encourage people to do completely stupid things which can kill totally innocent people. That pisses me off. They guys hit a tree. They could have hit a child.

I'm befuddled why you think enabling unsafe behavior is an OK idea.

 

[Mirak]

Well if they buckled it and then got in and sat on it with the intention of jumping in the back seat, it would stay buckled right?

Yeeeeessss…. but that seems highly unlikely. We’re getting back to phantom-third-occupant territory.

 

[Regularmache]

Let's go with this. First as to it being illegal to drive a self driving car on the roadway, why is Tesla selling what it purports to be a "self driving car"? Aren't they selling someone illegal? Second, as to the person in the seat (presumably awake), Tesla was explicit in saying that having a person in the seat was only necessary for legal reasons because the car was driving itself. Isn't saying you don't need anyone in the front seat an invitation to not have someone in the front seat?

The point here is Tesla is marketing a self-driving vehicle which isn't really a self-driving vehicle. Not to insult your intelligence, but the incongruity of putting out videos of people driving the car without their hands on the wheel, and saying they didn't even need to be in the driver's seat, but then having the manual admonish people who drive the car that they MUST, SIMPLY MUST, put their hands on the wheel at all times should be obvious.

What is so hard to understand here?

And let's go back to the fact that GM has had an actual hands free driving system on the market for several years and you never see any safety issues with it. Why? Obviously the reason is that GM has a safe system and Tesla doesn't.

Agreed, both Ford and Cadillacs Blue Cruise and Super Cruise respectively, are far more idiot proof. I'm glad my MachE is watching me but I'm not about to be acting Stupid with it.

 

[Regularmache]

You're missing the problem. As in completely missing the problem. To some extent, if people are going to be totally and impossibly stupid, and they end up dead, I regret that. It's different when you actively encourage people to do completely stupid things which can kill totally innocent people. That pisses me off. They guys hit a tree. They could have hit a child.

I'm befuddled why you think enabling unsafe behavior is an OK idea.

Absolutely, and it's these fools that are endangering the rest of us. I'm sad for there families, but they had zero business operating a vehicle like some kind of toy.

 

[LagerHead]

Agreed, both Ford and Cadillacs Blue Cruise and Super Cruise respectively, are far more idiot proof. I'm glad my MachE is watching me but I'm not about to be acting Stupid with it.

It looks like you didn't know there was a driver in the driver's seat at the time of the accident and that Autopilot was not activated. There are a lot of Tesla hit pieces that are simply incorrect or misleading, all in the name of trying to throw shade.

The car drove into a thicket of trees at high speed and the trees probably kept the two occupants from opening the doors. If you watch the news video you will see the large tree that looks like the one that stopped the car has a large scape mark starting ten feet off the ground.

I theorize that running over the smaller, more flexible trees caused the nose of the car to ride up the big tree and get hung-up in a more or less vertical position by all the branches and smaller trees. Of course the heat of the fire burned everything out in a circle around the car so, by the time the first responders got there the occupants were dead and the car had slid back to the ground (causing the large scrape high on the large tree). But not before the driver managed to fall or climb into the back seat in an attempt to get out through a back door.

That's just a theory based on the observable evidence but what we know is Autopilot was not engaged. The officer who said "we are 100% sure the driver's seat was empty at the time of impact" was being irresponsible by making such a statement before the investigation was completed.

 

[LagerHead]

Agreed, both Ford and Cadillacs Blue Cruise and Super Cruise respectively, are far more idiot proof. I'm glad my MachE is watching me but I'm not about to be acting Stupid with it.

Have any of you guys tried this:

 

[trutolife27]

again 19 minute mark. or this why worry about a seat belt when you can it will go with a goat.

 

[LagerHead]

Tesla owns these deaths. There's zero debating that. They absolutely could have prevented them through basic driver monitoring they refuse to do, because Elon Musk is convinced he's smarter than he is.

And by the way, Tesla knows it, which is why Musk tweeted that Autopilot was off when he knew it was on in an effort to remove their corporate responsbility, and it's why he's hosting SNL.

The evidence shows that you are very biased against Tesla and that Tesla was not at fault in the Texas crash. His appearance on SNL has nothing to do with the crash. You are being ridiculous.

And as long as they get away with it, they will continue to own deaths.

It's all in your head.

 

[LagerHead]

Pretty much any pleasure boat of any size that you buy these days comes with a "real" autopilot. I've used 20 or 30 different marine autopilots. You still have to pay attention, most of them don't avoid other watercraft, logs, etc. All Autopilot does is hold a pre-determined course. If you tell Autopilot to drive you onto the beach, it will drive you onto the beach. An autopilot does not make the boat autonomous, not even close.

I'm tired of the fake outrage over the trademark name of Tesla's driver assistance system. Autopilots only assist the operator of the boat or plane, the operator is still 100% responsible. The name is 100% appropriate. Apparently, some of you are not familiar with what an autopilot actually is.

Autopilot is a perfect name for such a system if you look at the past and present usage of the word.

 

[trutolife27]

yeah gogogadget I agree it was weird SNL and what some call Auto pilot. I just feel like someone just doesn't get it. But I can't see their post. Must not be worth the time. I only see everyone else's post on thread to thread clowning someone. Poor guy sometimes I feel bad for them.

?

 

[bluestarct]

It looks like you didn't know there was a driver in the driver's seat at the time of the accident and that Autopilot was not activated. There are a lot of Tesla hit pieces that are simply incorrect or misleading, all in the name of trying to throw shade.

The car drove into a thicket of trees at high speed and the trees probably kept the two occupants from opening the doors. If you watch the news video you will see the large tree that looks like the one that stopped the car has a large scape mark starting ten feet off the ground.

I theorize that running over the smaller, more flexible trees caused the nose of the car to ride up the big tree and get hung-up in a more or less vertical position by all the branches and smaller trees. Of course the heat of the fire burned everything out in a circle around the car so, by the time the first responders got there the occupants were dead and the car had slid back to the ground (causing the large scrape high on the large tree). But not before the driver managed to fall or climb into the back seat in an attempt to get out through a back door.

That's just a theory based on the observable evidence but what we know is Autopilot was not engaged. The officer who said "we are 100% sure the driver's seat was empty at the time of impact" was being irresponsible by making such a statement before the investigation was completed.

By your logic it is very clear that aliens were involved. They used a forcefield to make the Tesla go fast and drive directly into a grove of trees. The aliens then kept the people in the car until one of the aliens could ignite the Tesla on fire.

Great job Scooby Doo! You should stick to your cartoons. And you don't know whether Autopilot was engaged or not.

I am so glad you are not an investigator.

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