VW to divest EA stake

[trutolife27]

We don't road trip much, but my traveling companions rarely miss an opportunity to grab a drink/snack. For my family 19 charges would likely equal 18 or 19 purchases.

right now with lucid hitting 500 miles of range and Elon saying by 2025 they will have a car getting 600 to 700 miles of range. {yes I know its ELON}. We just need tech to have a breakthrough. You start having cars with that much range then you can go just about anywhere and back home.

I would say 500 miles of range is really a sweet spot. 1 charge to 80% gives you another 400 miles. that's 900 miles. That's about 11 hours of driving what 95% of people would do on any given trip.

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[BMT1071]

right now with lucid hitting 500 miles of range and Elon saying by 2025 they will have a car getting 600 to 700 miles of range. {yes I know its ELON}. We just need tech to have a breakthrough. You start having cars with that much range then you can go just about anywhere and back home.

I would say 500 miles of range is really a sweet spot. 1 charge to 80% gives you another 400 miles. that's 900 miles. That's about 11 hours of driving what 95% of people would do on any given trip.

Those seem like pretty wild assumptions to me. No way are 95% of people willing or able to drive 11 hours straight. 900 miles in 11 hours is averaging 81.8 mph. Where would that ever be possible? Maybe a fraction of 1% of drivers actually needs a 500 mile range. The rest have just convinced themselves that they do.

 

[trutolife27]

Those seem like pretty wild assumptions to me. No way are 95% of people willing or able to drive 11 hours straight. 900 miles in 11 hours is averaging 81.8 mph. Where would that ever be possible? Maybe a fraction of 1% of drivers actually needs a 500 mile range. The rest have just convinced themselves that they do.

The point is most people don't even need 100 miles a day. But you can buy one with the range or not. My wife has one with a small range and the other has it for the road trip.

Kinda like Ice vehicles now with gas mileage vehicles for road trips or lots of miles each year.

What I meant is 95% of people that do road trips drive 11 hours or less in a day. Most of your long road trips on the east coast are from up north driving to down south to Florida or gulf shores. I think its like 35% of most yearly family vacations are going to Florida so that's a lot. I know each time we go I drive in all the way one day 11 hours or more. Most people do it one day.

 

[EELinneman]

right now with lucid hitting 500 miles of range and Elon saying by 2025 they will have a car getting 600 to 700 miles of range. {yes I know its ELON}. We just need tech to have a breakthrough. You start having cars with that much range then you can go just about anywhere and back home.

I would say 500 miles of range is really a sweet spot. 1 charge to 80% gives you another 400 miles. that's 900 miles. That's about 11 hours of driving what 95% of people would do on any given trip.

At 58 years old, the thought of driving 11 hours without a break is painful. My driving is 95% in town or to the airport (50 miles each way), so the range of the MME is sufficient. For longer trips, my wife's Audi Q5 can get 500 miles in a tank ful of gas.

For most of us here we can charge at home, so DCFC is not a critical daily requirement. For others the extended range will be vital.

 

[EELinneman]

That's probably accurate (from more time to kill). But that's looking at from just the solo customer side. Looking at it from the host business side, they need to multiply that by the number of customers. And that's a tiny fraction of gas customers. Not just now, but even after BEVs reach their market peak. Figure something like 90% of BEV charging is done on L2 at home (or work, school, hotel, etc). So even if the # of vehicles were equal, that's 90% less retail DCFC charges (vs gas).

And really, I think that will be closer to 95%. Tesla started off by coaxing a lot of early buyers in with Supercharging as the norm, but that's a very bad model going forward. DCFC is precious, volume-constrained, bad for the batteries full-time, and expensive. L2 needs to be the model for nearly all local charging, with DCFC being used for those driving >200 miles same day (i.e. mostly road trips or very heavy users).

Tim,

All valid points. Last week I had dinner with a friend near Park Meadows Mall and there is a Tesla Supercharger station in the parking lot. Near the Stickley furniture store. It was 10 to 30% full during the time we ate. I don't know the economics of Tesla ownership but understand that some of this charging is gratis. The 4 slot EA station at the Walmart on Bowles and C-470 is almost always empty. That will change as more BEV cars and trucks are on the road.

 

[BMT1071]

Tim,

All valid points. Last week I had dinner with a friend near Park Meadows Mall and there is a Tesla Supercharger station in the parking lot. Near the Stickley furniture store. It was 10 to 30% full during the time we ate. I don't know the economics of Tesla ownership but understand that some of this charging is gratis. The 4 slot EA station at the Walmart on Bowles and C-470 is almost always empty. That will change as more BEV cars and trucks are on the road.

Maybe the Tesla owners are just ABC people. ?‍

Always Be Charging

 

[dbsb3233]

Maybe the Tesla owners are just ABC people. ?‍

Always Be Charging

From what I've picked up on the last 2 years, it does sound like a much higher% of them seem to be. In part from Tesla (unfortunately) giving out free lifetime charging in the early days in an attempt to sell buyers on the very expensive cars. But also some that aren't in on the "free" deal. Just seemed to be more of the mindset back then.

Hopefully that's changing in favor of using L2 locally. That already seems to be the mindset of most CCS buyers (thankfully).

Apartments/condos are the key charging frontier going forward. Need big efforts to get L2 into them. That will be the next game-charger for EV adoption.

 

[Billyk24]

Oh I wholly agree that restaurants and larger stores (like Walmarts) are usually the best places to put them. I've said the same thing. From the BEV owners' standpoint, that's a big plus to have bathrooms and restaurants on-site.

What I meant was that from the hosting businesses' standpoint, there's very little gain to them being a charger-hosting site vs being a gas-hosting site. It's a tiny fraction of the foot traffic. And that matters because businesses won't be rushing out to offer a spot in their parking lots to host chargers. Many people suggest it's a big plus for them to do so (citing gas stations), but it's really not a big plus. Just a small one because it's a tiny fraction of the daily foot traffic.

At this time frame, installing dcfc at rest stops, gas stations travel plazas along the interstate highway appears to be the best solution for long distance bev travel. Making one get off the interstate and traveling a few miles in a metro area isn't really what I want to do while attempting to cover 750+ miles in one day as I do with a phev.

 

[dbsb3233]

At this time frame, installing dcfc at rest stops, gas stations travel plazas along the interstate highway appears to be the best solution for long distance bev travel. Making one get off the interstate and traveling a few miles in a metro area isn't really what I want to do while attempting to cover 750+ miles in one day as I do with a phev.

If there's not restaurants and stores near the highway exit, sure. But there often are. Walmarts and Targets with restaurants sharing the parking lot are often adjacent to highways. That works well for bathrooms and food.

But where there are none near the highway, yes, something else near the highway is next best.

 

[timbop]

If there's not restaurants and stores near the highway exit, sure. But there often are. Walmarts and Targets with restaurants sharing the parking lot are often adjacent to highways. That works well for bathrooms and food.

But where there are none near the highway, yes, something else near the highway is next best.

I've only looked along the east coast so can't say for elsewhere, but along I-95, I-85, and I-75 many of the chargers are exactly as stated - at a walmart/target with at least 1 place to eat adjacent to the parking lot or a short walk away. Most of them are fast food joints, but in the more built up areas there are good sit-down options as well.

 

[dbsb3233]

I've only looked along the east coast so can't say for elsewhere, but along I-95, I-85, and I-75 many of the chargers are exactly as stated - at a walmart/target with at least 1 place to eat adjacent to the parking lot or a short walk away. Most of them are fast food joints, but in the more built up areas there are good sit-down options as well.

Same way with our frequent Denver-Vegas route (I-70/I-15). Frisco CO, Cedar City UT, St George UT, and Mesquite NV are all Walmarts right off the highway interchange. Glenwood Springs CO and Richfield UT are about 3 minutes off the highway. The only one at some distance is Grand Junction CO at the Sams Club 10 minutes off I-70 through town.

3 of the UT towns with EA are too small to have Walmarts or Targets. Beaver's is at a Days Inn, Salina's is at a Love's truck stop, both right at the exit. Green River's is 5 minutes off I-70 along the bypass through town though.

Overall EA did a great job of arranging good road tripping spots for the route. Grand Junction being the exception. Green River could be a little better too. But overall it's a good route with not a lot of wasted "charger distance" time.

 

[BMT1071]

Same way with our frequent Denver-Vegas route (I-70/I-15). Frisco CO, Cedar City UT, St George UT, and Mesquite NV are all Walmarts right off the highway interchange. Glenwood Springs CO and Richfield UT are about 3 minutes off the highway. The only one at some distance is Grand Junction CO at the Sams Club 10 minutes off I-70 through town.

3 of the UT towns with EA are too small to have Walmarts or Targets. Beaver's is at a Days Inn, Salina's is at a Love's truck stop, both right at the exit. Green River's is 5 minutes off I-70 along the bypass through town though.

Overall EA did a great job of arranging good road tripping spots for the route. Grand Junction being the exception. Green River could be a little better too. But overall it's a good route with not a lot of wasted "charger distance" time.

GJ is the exception for a lot of things...?

 

[dbsb3233]

GJ is the exception for a lot of things...?

We like GJ. It's kinda nice that I-70 doesn't go through the center like most cities. It still nicely skirts the northern edge (although in 30 years that will probably all have been engulfed by population growth like the rest of the state ).

On the way back, we stay in GJ rather than making it home at midnight. Just prefer daytime driving now that we're old(er). There's a free set of L2 chargers (Skyline) just off I-70 by the airport with a half dozen hotels in easy walking distance there. Perfect for a quick overnight stop. Mach-E is 100% by 8am and off we go again!

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