Wait for LFP Battery? / Marital Advice

[ADDZ71]

I would agree with everyone's comments on the concern with cold weather. I wanted to address the environmentally friendly aspect of the discussion. It is an unknown whether the LFP batteries will be environmentally friendly as the NCM batteries due to the lower value having an economic problem for recycling. The NCM batteries are highly likely to be fully recycled (particularly on the Cobalt and Nickel content) while the LFP batteries may not be as attractive to recycle (more costly to recover the Fe and PO4) and just as difficult to recycle the Li content. Nearly every battery maker today is sourcing Cobalt and Nickel from as socially and environmentally suitable area as possible (no artisanal mining in western vehicle). Extracting Iron Ore and Phosphate is not considerably different than the methods used for Cobalt and Nickel and the impact. From a CO2 perspective I would expect LFP batteries to have a higher CO2 / kwh but I don't think I have seen any data on that to date.

Sponsored

 

[fxo]

LFP cold weather performance is demonstrably inferior to NMC.
Each person should consider their use case(s) and their local climate when they have a choice in battery chemistry.

Not for long, scientists are experimenting with manganese to improve cold weather performance of LFP.
LMFP or some variant will solve this, and manganese is cheap like iron and phosphate.

Exciting times... and definitely consider your use case as you say. LFP chemistry derivatives are evolving pretty fast. See here if you haven't already>>

https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabu...set-to-be-the-next-big-thing-in-ev-batteries/

 

[Maquis]

Not for long, scientists are experimenting with manganese to improve cold weather performance of LFP.
LMFP or some variant will solve this, and manganese is cheap like iron and phosphate.

Exciting times... and definitely consider your use case as you say. LFP chemistry derivatives are evolving pretty fast. See here if you haven't already>>

https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabu...set-to-be-the-next-big-thing-in-ev-batteries/

This thread is about deciding whether or not to buy a Mach-E with the LFP battery it has today. You’re moving the goalpost into the future.

 

[ddeluce]

Don't forget the CR1 comes standard with AWD. The LFP cars are RWD only. If you need AWD then the choice is easy, go with the CR1.

 

[hybrid2bev]

Don't forget the CR1 comes standard with AWD. The LFP cars are RWD only. If you need AWD then the choice is easy, go with the CR1.

CR1 comes standard with ER battery (NCM). The LFP cars are SR only. If you need AWD and LFP then the choice is either a Select AWD or Premium AWD with SR battery.

 

[generaltso]

The LFP cars are RWD only.

No.

 

[fxo]

The point here is LFP batteries are morphing (hybridizing) so fast you may want to consider just waiting or leasing.

There is a lot of (rumor) data around this. Of course this is moving from China to Hungary first not allowing much of a Federal Tax rebate. As CATL is the leader here.

But when tech is moving this fast it doesn't make sense to buy, it makes sense to lease.

Here is some more data on this:
https://electrek.co/2023/09/05/catl-700km-range-shenxing-lfp-battery-production-europe/

The MME LFP is doing 3.5 mi per kWh, and that is very efficient by M3 Gen1 standards, but not by Tesla M3 Highland standards, both Mercedes and Tesla have achieved 5 miles per kWh in the latest tests. Sure it is 30 mph consistent test 100% TO 0% charge testing. But tests are always synthetic in some way.

You can see this in the fact that residual values for MME's are so low right now, it is not the car itself it is the battery tech killing the residuals. You can see this on a site like carsandbids.com. The used market for unique vehicles is healthy. MME residual prices are not.

Sponsored