Winter Charging

[AdamGilles12]

I search around and couldn't find this. Feel free to point me in the direction if already been asked.
I picked up my MME Premium EX last week. The first time charging (about 15 degrees out) it charged to 207 100% which I know is low because it is winter. Last night I charged and it went to 180 100%. Is this an issue or just because it is cold? I use a juice box charging system. Thanks so much for everyone's help in this forum.

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[timbop]

This comes up all the time. The cold weather affects efficiency, and the range estimator (guess-o-meter) generally overcompensates for the cold. Your range will be less than the EPA estimate in the winter, and likely higher than the estimate in warm weather. This thread talks about how to more accurately compute your actual range, but the causes of the issue in the first place:

1. Because the car doesn't know how far, how fast, in what conditions, etc it cannot be exact unless you actually put in a route right then - and even that is an approximation based on modeling. Thus the GOM is intentionally conservative as a "worst case" scenario to prevent people from getting stranded because the GOM said they can go farther than they actually can. It tends to be more conservative for this very reason; Ford has been underpromising and overdelivering on the Mach E. While that confounds newbies, doing a little research results in recognizing the issue and not being alarmed by it. By contrast Tesla overestimates their range on their GOM in all conditions; see plenty of actual "real world" driving tests by insideevs, alexonautos, edmunds, etc.
2. ICE engines are only 30% to 40% efficient, with the majority of energy being lost as heat. In winter that is an advantage because the heat that would otherwise be wasted is used to heat the cabin. BEV's are by contrast 95% efficient with minimal energy lost as heat. In the winter the car has to use extra energy to heat the cabin. That is why they tell you to use the seat and steering wheel heaters instead of heating the cabin if you can, because there is a lot less to heat up. The chemistry of Li-ion batteries is to blame as well: the liquid electrolyte loses viscosity (and thus potency) as temps drop well below freezing. At 30 to 40 degrees F it is minimal, but once you get down to around zero or below it becomes an issue. The 2 factors (no waste heat and chemistry) combine for some loss (10% to 20%) in range once it gets down to freezing or below. Therefore in really cold (-30 degree) temps like in Alaska the car's actual range does drop by 40% to 50%. In more reasonable climates (20 degree temps) effective range drops by 20% to 30%.
3. You CAN compensate somewhat by configuring departure times and leaving the car plugged in; this will warm the battery and the cabin using grid power. You can also remote start the car for an impromptu journey, but that doesn't necessarily warm as much as a scheduled departure.
4. EVERY BEV experiences this issue right now; it is not unique to Ford. That is one of the reasons they are all investing so heavily in solid state batteries: "dry" batteries do not experience the issue with the electrolyte in cold weather.

 

[RickMachE]

Welcome Adam.

There are probably several dozen posts identical to yours. Temperature has a huge impact on range. I'm right down the road from you, and I'm at 166 miles at 90% which translates to 184 at 100%. Basically identical to yours.

In addition to reading through your manual, and the forum, I'd suggest you change your charging level to 90%, unless it's the night before a long trip, which promotes battery longevity. The manual, and this forum, will tell you that.

You'll also want to precondition before driving when it's this cold. It uses the house current to warm the battery, and the car.

Enjoy!

 

[AdamGilles12]

Welcome Adam.

There are probably several dozen posts identical to yours. Temperature has a huge impact on range. I'm right down the road from you, and I'm at 166 miles at 90% which translates to 184 at 100%. Basically identical to yours.

In addition to reading through your manual, and the forum, I'd suggest you change your charging level to 90%, unless it's the night before a long trip, which promotes battery longevity. The manual, and this forum, will tell you that.

You'll also want to precondition before driving when it's this cold. It uses the house current to warm the battery, and the car.

Enjoy!

Thank you so much for the response. I see in the Ford app that I have it set to 90%. I don't see anything to change on the juice box app which is what I used to charge. I'm guessing the juice box and the Ford app sync so that it won't go above 90%?

 

[RickMachE]

Thank you so much for the response. I see in the Ford app that I have it set to 90%. I don't see anything to change on the juice box app which is what I used to charge. I'm guessing the juice box and the Ford app sync so that it won't go above 90%?

The JuiceBox app and FordPass / the car don't sync schedules or charge levels, period.

If you set the JuiceBox to not supply charge (as I do during my peak hours of 11AM - 7PM Mon - Fri), then it won't supply charge, even if the Mach-E calls for it.

If you have the JuiceBox set to supply charge (or have no schedule set in it), but the car is set to not charge because you set a schedule in it, then it won't charge. However, untested is whether the car will pull current if it needs to keep the battery level outside that charging window, or if you set a departure time or remote start outside that charging window.

Finally, the levels that you can set in the JuiceBox app, and in the Mach-E, don't communicate. I can tell the JuiceBox to only charge to 80kWh, or to a percentage. If the car has different settings, those will rule, unless the JuiceBox settings are lower, in which case they will rule assuming that the JuiceBox actually knows what level the car is at. I haven't test this.

 

[AdamGilles12]

The JuiceBox app and FordPass / the car don't sync schedules or charge levels, period.

If you set the JuiceBox to not supply charge (as I do during my peak hours of 11AM - 7PM Mon - Fri), then it won't supply charge, even if the Mach-E calls for it.

If you have the JuiceBox set to supply charge (or have no schedule set in it), but the car is set to not charge because you set a schedule in it, then it won't charge. However, untested is whether the car will pull current if it needs to keep the battery level outside that charging window, or if you set a departure time or remote start outside that charging window.

Finally, the levels that you can set in the JuiceBox app, and in the Mach-E, don't communicate. I can tell the JuiceBox to only charge to 80kWh, or to a percentage. If the car has different settings, those will rule, unless the JuiceBox settings are lower, in which case they will rule assuming that the JuiceBox actually knows what level the car is at. I haven't test this.

Wow, you are so helpful. On the Juicebox app do you mean in Device Settings, charging, the max rate set to 80? Mine was at 40 before. I also have it set to smart charging, do you recomend that? It says when I open the app, waiting for "Time of use" to charge. THanks again

 

[RickMachE]

Wow, you are so helpful. On the Juicebox app do you mean in Device Settings, charging, the max rate set to 80? Mine was at 40 before. I also have it set to smart charging, do you recomend that? It says when I open the app, waiting for "Time of use" to charge. THanks again

When the JuiceBox app says "waiting for "Time of Use", that's based off the Time of Use setting being turned on in the JuiceBox app. In Settings, if you click on Smart Charging, and see the Toggle set to Time of Use, and a schedule, that's it.

What your refer to is the charging rate in amperage. Your charger can go up to 48 amps. You can set it lower. I have it set for 32 amps. Why? Because in my normal use, and my offpeak hours (16 hours a day M-F, 24 hours on weekends), there is no reason to go faster. Yes, I could go slower, but I've never read anything that says that 32 amps impacts the battery any more negatively than 28 amps or 20 amps.

If you go the the main screen, you can see a dial that has 3 modes - %, range, and energy (click on the middle to change it). In any mode, you can set the limit to a lower amount. If you then click on the 3 modes, will see a new maximum lower amount.

I have my charger set to the same Time of Use as my utility plan. I do not want FordPass / the car deciding to top off the battery during my peak hours, it's unneeded. I don't care how cold it gets, there's only 8 hours of peak rate, and the battery will be fine. If I decide that I want to remote start or set a departure time during peak hours, then I can choose to "Charge Now" in the JuiceBox app and use power, but the car doesn't decide for me.

 

[AdamGilles12]

When the JuiceBox app says "waiting for "Time of Use", that's based off the Time of Use setting being turned on in the JuiceBox app. In Settings, if you click on Smart Charging, and see the Toggle set to Time of Use, and a schedule, that's it.

What your refer to is the charging rate in amperage. Your charger can go up to 48 amps. You can set it lower. I have it set for 32 amps. Why? Because in my normal use, and my offpeak hours (16 hours a day M-F, 24 hours on weekends), there is no reason to go faster. Yes, I could go slower, but I've never read anything that says that 32 amps impacts the battery any more negatively than 28 amps or 20 amps.

If you go the the main screen, you can see a dial that has 3 modes - %, range, and energy (click on the middle to change it). In any mode, you can set the limit to a lower amount. If you then click on the 3 modes, will see a new maximum lower amount.

I have my charger set to the same Time of Use as my utility plan. I do not want FordPass / the car deciding to top off the battery during my peak hours, it's unneeded. I don't care how cold it gets, there's only 8 hours of peak rate, and the battery will be fine. If I decide that I want to remote start or set a departure time during peak hours, then I can choose to "Charge Now" in the JuiceBox app and use power, but the car doesn't decide for me.

Once again thank you so much. I changed my amps to 32. And I changed my percent to 90 on the app. I really appreciate all your help I thought I did a lot of research and I thought I knew a lot about this and then I got the car and I realized I don't know anything. It's going to be crazy to see when we get warmer weather how much it changes. Another question do you charge every night? I know I plug it in every night but I don't necessarily charge it every night what do you think?

 

[RickMachE]

Once again thank you so much. I changed my amps to 32. And I changed my percent to 90 on the app. I really appreciate all your help I thought I did a lot of research and I thought I knew a lot about this and then I got the car and I realized I don't know anything. It's going to be crazy to see when we get warmer weather how much it changes. Another question do you charge every night? I know I plug it in every night but I don't necessarily charge it every night what do you think?

I plug it in when it's in my garage, which is all the time I'm not driving it.

It charges to reach 90%, when it's in off-peak hours. It also takes sips when it decides it wants to, but only during off-peak hours. It did it last night from 3:20AM to 3:35AM, and the night prior.

There is no reason to not keep your car plugged in when you're not using it, but that's not a blanket statement. Ignoring peak hours, if I go out to the store and come back, and intend to go out again in 3 hours, the only reason to plug in would be to set a departure time. Remote starting off the wall current only helps range, and if I'm local driving that buys me nothing. So you could use your car during that day multiple times, pull in the garage each time, and not plug in until your last trip of the day ends.

My garage is such that to get to the Mach-E requires me to open both garage doors, since my F-150 sits in the middle of my 3 car bay, and my boat is in the closest bay. The Mach-E is the only one that fits in the single door bay, so going out to plug it in is a royal pain. And, there is no reason to not plug it in at 3:35PM when it's not going to charge until 7PM.

As far as knowing a lot or nothing, we had a Ford hybrid for 9 years, and a PHEV for 3 years, and I read alot. And we've put over 6,000 miles on it. Gain knowledge by experience and absorbing the knowledge of others.

 

[AdamGilles12]

I plug it in when it's in my garage, which is all the time I'm not driving it.

It charges to reach 90%, when it's in off-peak hours. It also takes sips when it decides it wants to, but only during off-peak hours. It did it last night from 3:20AM to 3:35AM, and the night prior.

There is no reason to not keep your car plugged in when you're not using it, but that's not a blanket statement. Ignoring peak hours, if I go out to the store and come back, and intend to go out again in 3 hours, the only reason to plug in would be to set a departure time. Remote starting off the wall current only helps range, and if I'm local driving that buys me nothing. So you could use your car during that day multiple times, pull in the garage each time, and not plug in until your last trip of the day ends.

My garage is such that to get to the Mach-E requires me to open both garage doors, since my F-150 sits in the middle of my 3 car bay, and my boat is in the closest bay. The Mach-E is the only one that fits in the single door bay, so going out to plug it in is a royal pain. And, there is no reason to not plug it in at 3:35PM when it's not going to charge until 7PM.

As far as knowing a lot or nothing, we had a Ford hybrid for 9 years, and a PHEV for 3 years, and I read alot. And we've put over 6,000 miles on it. Gain knowledge by experience and absorbing the knowledge of others.

I had a hybrid for the last 8 years the fusion fusion. I got really good at driving that. How do you get it to take sips like you mentioned? It's also very easy for me to plug it in every single time I get in the garage so I just plan on doing that. And I have it only to charge between 11:00 and 6:00 in the morning

 

[RickMachE]

You don't get it to take sips, it just does it. I see it via notifications from the JuiceBox app, and then in the JuiceBox data.

 

[AdamGilles12]

You don't get it to take sips, it just does it. I see it via notifications from the JuiceBox app, and then in the JuiceBox data.

I have yet to see mine take any sips. You had your mme over the summer correct? So then miraculously in the summertime the mileage will just go mileage will just go up?

 

[RickMachE]

Sure, fix the "monkey" typo while I'm typing a snide response...

Yes, when it gets warmer, a mysterious force will increase your range. Highest we saw was 277.

 

[AdamGilles12]

Sure, fix the "monkey" typo while I'm typing a snide response...

Yes, when it gets warmer, a mysterious force will increase your range. Highest we saw was 277.

Dude, you're cracking me up lol I don't think my phone is used to typing mustang Mach E. I met somebody here in Southeast Michigan who does not have the extended range and he said over the summertime he was getting close to 300

 

[RickMachE]

Dude, you're cracking me up lol I don't think my phone is used to typing mustang Mach E. I met somebody here in Southeast Michigan who does not have the extended range and he said over the summertime he was getting close to 300

Possible.

The GOM (Guess-O-Meter) could read over 300 if they were getting like 4.5 miles per kWh. That's someone driving like a grandmother locally, going 25mph.

For normal drivers, getting more like 3.5 miles per kWh, then it might read 238.

I don't think we ever got over 278, but I didn't memorize it.

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