Wiring question

[RickMachE]

I had an electrician install breaker, wiring, and my JB48 charger. I had them use 4 conductor wiring, even though the JB only needs 2 hots and a ground, so I had more flexibility in the future. In my installation, the white neutral is capped in the box.

I am considering adding an outlet to a box connected to the side of the workbox. Probably a 14-50 to allow me to use the Ford charger, depending on if I buy a 240v air compressor and what it's plug is.

I'm getting estimates for a whole house generator currently and may fold installing this into that work.

Question - what is code for the other end of the white wire in the breaker panel? Would they cap it, or would they hook it up to neutral knowing they would not be using it?

It is 4 gauge with a 6 gauge ground not that it matters for this question.

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[MONDO]

Safest to leave if capped/ disconnected on both ends.

 

[RickMachE]

Figured that, just wondering what an electrician would normally do?

The generator install doesn't involve taking off the panel, so I might need to cut the main breaker and do that myself to look.

 

[daemonic3]

Sorry, not here to answer the question but that's really cool idea and I'm interested in whether they (licensed electrician) will do this secondary potential load on one 60A breaker with or without permit.

Because I may want a 2nd outlet in a different location in the future, I asked for a 2nd junction box with an extra slack loop left inside so we can tap off it (future mod), and I'll manage using one outlet at a time since I only have one 50A breaker. 2 electricians said no they will not do that unless I run from a 2nd 50A breaker, and 2 said sure. While I'm fully aware only one outlet/load can be used at a time, future home owners may not and no inspector would allow it to be permitted.

So I'm curious whether the outlet (2nd potential load) will be allowed under permit. I considered maybe something like this DPDT knife switch (https://www.amazon.com/Disconnect-K.../143-3549151-4316609?pd_rd_i=B09NB6X1F9&psc=1) for the 2 hot lines to guarantee only one load is hot at a time? No clue if that is valid for a permit either.

 

[Benny’66]

Interesting. How will they install a “whole house” generator without taking the front panel off of your panel box? Where does the transfer switch(s) tie into? Also, were you planning to share the same JB48 circuit for the side outlet? I thought about doing the same thing with my ChargePoint, but the isolation (selector) switch was expensive and complicated to install.

Just looked it up again. Not too expensive, but definitely not an easy/visually appealing install for my application.

https://www.amazon.com/Baomain-Univ...+switch+exterior+box+lw28-63/4,aps,180&sr=8-1

 

[daemonic3]

Interesting. How will they install a “whole house” generator without taking the front panel off of your panel box? Where does the transfer switch(s) tie into? Also, were you planning to share the same JB48 circuit for the side outlet? I thought about doing the same thing with my ChargePoint, but the isolation (selector) switch was expensive and complicated to install.

Just looked it up again. Not too expensive, but definitely not an easy/visually appealing install for my application.

https://www.amazon.com/Baomain-Universal-Changeover-SZW26-63-D303-3/dp/B07H5GZ53G/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=21S5GPJMYVEFM&keywords=Baomain+Universal+Rotary+Changeover+Cam+Switch+SZW26-63/D303.3D+660V+63A+3+Position+3+Phase+with+Master+Switch+Exterior+Box+LW28-63/4&qid=1658757298&sprefix=baomain+universal+rotary+changeover+cam+switch+szw26-63/d303.3d+660v+63a+3+position+3+phase+with+master+switch+exterior+box+lw28-63/4,aps,180&sr=8-1

Wow, that one is... beefy. Looks like you were wondering about the same thing I am, and having the safety switch. Did you see the knife switch I linked? They make a 3 pole one as well for switching 3 phases but I supposed you could use the 3rd pole for neutral if you wanted.

 

[SnBGC]

I had an electrician install breaker, wiring, and my JB48 charger. I had them use 4 conductor wiring, even though the JB only needs 2 hots and a ground, so I had more flexibility in the future. In my installation, the white neutral is capped in the box.

I am considering adding an outlet to a box connected to the side of the workbox. Probably a 14-50 to allow me to use the Ford charger, depending on if I buy a 240v air compressor and what it's plug is.

I'm getting estimates for a whole house generator currently and may fold installing this into that work.

Question - what is code for the other end of the white wire in the breaker panel? Would they cap it, or would they hook it up to neutral knowing they would not be using it?

It is 4 gauge with a 6 gauge ground not that it matters for this question.

Test the neutral to ground with an ohm meter and that will tell you if they landed it in the panel

 

[DYohn]

I believe the neutral should be connected to the neutral bus in your main distribution box, but if not used at the load can be capped off.

 

[Benny’66]

Wow, that one is... beefy. Looks like you were wondering about the same thing I am, and having the safety switch. Did you see the knife switch I linked? They make a 3 pole one as well for switching 3 phases but I supposed you could use the 3rd pole for neutral if you wanted.

I don’t have a ton of experience with these switches on residential applications. Mine would have been outdoor or garage application, so water tight was a concern. Looks like the one you posted would work in dry areas. They list it as 2 line to 1 load versus our application would be 1 line to 2 load. Doubt the switch cares which direction the electrons are flowing.

 

[daemonic3]

I don’t have a ton of experience with these switches on residential applications. Mine would have been outdoor or garage application, so water tight was a concern. Looks like the one you posted would work in dry areas. They list it as 2 line to 1 load versus our application would be 1 line to 2 load. Doubt the switch cares which direction the electrons are flowing.

True! I was only considering inside my dry garage.

Also, reading back we may have both misinterpreted Rick's message. When he said adding an outlet box to the side of his "workbox", my brain interpreted workbox as Juicebox, i.e. sharing the same wiring circuit. I am not sure what "workbox" actually is now.

 

[Mach-Lee]

Rick, if the circuit is used for EV charging, it can’t be used for anything else by code without a load management device.
So you can’t share it with a 14-50. One or the other.

 

[RickMachE]

Yes, I would share the circuit. If I was using the compressor, it would be in the daytime. Car charges at night. JB is set for 32amps, circuit is 60amps, so I have 16amps spare anyway.

No, I would not get it inspected, because I know it wouldn't pass due to sharing (although two JB 48s can share the 60amp circuit with load sharing built in).

I would remove outlet, and JuiceBox, if I moved.

The first quote for the generator said they would mount the automatic transfer switch outside, pull the wire from the meter and put it in the transfer switch, and stick a new wire from the meter to the transfer switch mounted next to it. So, I don't believe they'd be going into the panel.

 

[Maquis]

Yes, I would share the circuit. If I was using the compressor, it would be in the daytime. Car charges at night. JB is set for 32amps, circuit is 60amps, so I have 16amps spare anyway.

No, I would not get it inspected, because I know it wouldn't pass due to sharing (although two JB 48s can share the 60amp circuit with load sharing built in).

I would remove outlet, and JuiceBox, if I moved.

The first quote for the generator said they would mount the automatic transfer switch outside, pull the wire from the meter and put it in the transfer switch, and stick a new wire from the meter to the transfer switch mounted next to it. So, I don't believe they'd be going into the panel.

FYI….
When using an automatic transfer switch, code requires either the generator be sized to run your entire residence, or some automatic load shedding be employed.

 

[RickMachE]

FYI….
When using an automatic transfer switch, code requires either the generator be sized to run your entire residence, or some automatic load shedding be employed.

Right. It will be sized to run the entire house it appears, because the savings of going smaller is eaten up by having to put in a smart management model. Ends up about $300 a part (on one quote, more in the works). That's about a 2.5% cost increase. No brainer to spend that, unless the fuel consumption difference is large, which I will also be looking at.

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