HELP! Ford not honoring warranty with 311 miles on car

[Maquis]

This seems like suggesting that because if a Sherman tank fell out of the sky onto the car, Ford wouldn't be responsible for the structural damage, OP should prove to us all that no armored vehicles descended at terminal velocity from the heavens.

When charging on AC, the only actual charger involved is the one Ford themselves built into the car. This is not the same as Level 3 DC charging, where the charger is an external unit that absolutely can wreak utter havoc if it malfunctions. There are (besides myself) quite a few engineers and electricians in this forum - plenty of people qualified to contradict my statement that an EVSE pretty much can't damage a vehicle. Why should your speculation be privileged over the actual facts?

As a fellow engineer (retired), I agree with what you’re saying.

There is one possibility I can think of where an EVSE could damage the car - if somehow an internal failure caused a short circuit between the 240V line and the pilot signal wires…..but I’ll bet real money that’s not what’s going on here. If that were to happen, some magic smoke would get released and there would be errors exhibited by the lights on the EVSE.
The likelihood of such a failure is in the same ballpark as your Sherman tank scenario.

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[tls]

As I read back through this, I think I got into a state of high dudgeon and was unfairly snarky to @Mach1E. Sorry about that.

But I think my core point stands: a home "charger" (EVSE) pretty much cannot damage a vehicle. And @Ford Motor Company really should use whatever means it has available to crack down hard on dealerships that spread brand-damaging nonsense like this in a seeming attempt to shirk their obligations to perform warranty repairs.

 

[Mach1E]

But I'm talking about the warranty that applies to the situation. The BEV Ford warranty states "incompatible" charging equipment or an "incompatible" charging method. The EVSE is not a component part of the MME, meaning it is not in the bill of material that is used to assemble the automobile. It is the separate device that is used to add electricity fuel (ions) to the battery via the MME's on-board charging componentry.

Regarding use of non-Ford parts, the BEV warranty clearly states on page 28 under WHAT REPLACEMENT PARTS SHOULD I USE? the owner can use non-Ford parts as long has the parts "are equivalent to Ford parts in performance, quality, and durability". So, if you are trying to support the dealership's argument that the OP's ChargePoint EVSE (correctly installed) is not equivalent to a Ford-branded EVSE, I covered that by stating the ChargePoint EVSE needs to meet the SAE specifications (J3400) for EV support equipment. I'd bet the OP can find within the documents that came with his EVSE ChargePoint's certification that the EVSE meets the specifications of SAE J3400.

But again, the EVSE is not a component part of the vehicle (i.e. not in the bill of material) so the manufacturer's warranty regarding the components of the vehicle does not apply. If you believe a non-manufacturer branded EVSE voids an EV's warranty, then there would be no market for non-branded EVSE for consumers to choose from.

I think you’re really getting stuck in the weeds and trying to apply language that doesn’t apply to this situation.

IF a “non-Ford branded” part “causes damage” to the car, the warranty claim may be denied.

The big question is what “causes the damage.”

It’s no different than the other thread going right now about aftermarket bike racks causing frame damage.

That frame damage won’t be covered under warranty either.

I don’t think the charger damaged the OPs car either. It’s all speculation at this point and irrelevant since he got covered.

But in a situation where the dealer could prove that some non-Ford charger actually damages the car……. Yeah, you could be denied a warranty claim.

I’ll use an extreme example to prove the same point-

Home charger malfunctions and catches fire, setting your car on fire and your house.

It’s going to be an insurance claim on the car and the house (two separate claims).

Scenario #2. A FORD home charger malfunctions and catches the car and house on fire……. Still an insurance claim, but you’re likely going after Ford.

Scenario #3. My Ford supplied charger malfunctions and died or hurts the car. Ford replaces the charger and fixes the car under warranty.

 

[Mach1E]

As I read back through this, I think I got into a state of high dudgeon and was unfairly snarky to @Mach1E. Sorry about that.

But I think my core point stands: a home "charger" (EVSE) pretty much cannot damage a vehicle. And @Ford Motor Company really should use whatever means it has available to crack down hard on dealerships that spread brand-damaging nonsense like this in a seeming attempt to shirk their obligations to perform warranty repairs.

I honestly don’t know if it could or not. Just talking about hypothetically if it did (which is what the dealer claimed originally).

Still would be super helpful if the OP told us what actually broke and what was fixed.

FWIW (a long time ago), I had a dealer (service advisor) try to tell me that an aftermarket subwoofer voided my warranty claim on a power window.

Service advisors are wrong sometimes.

 

[Space_Pony]

I think you’re really getting stuck in the weeds and trying to apply language that doesn’t apply to this situation.

IF a “non-Ford branded” part “causes damage” to the car, the warranty claim may be denied.

The big question is what “causes the damage.”

It’s no different than the other thread going right now about aftermarket bike racks causing frame damage.

That frame damage won’t be covered under warranty either.

I don’t think the charger damaged the OPs car either. It’s all speculation at this point and irrelevant since he got covered.

But in a situation where the dealer could prove that some non-Ford charger actually damages the car……. Yeah, you could be denied a warranty claim.

I’ll use an extreme example to prove the same point-

Home charger malfunctions and catches fire, setting your car on fire and your house.

It’s going to be an insurance claim on the car and the house (two separate claims).

Scenario #2. A FORD home charger malfunctions and catches the car and house on fire……. Still an insurance claim, but you’re likely going after Ford.

Scenario #3. My Ford supplied charger malfunctions and died or hurts the car. Ford replaces the charger and fixes the car under warranty.

The charger is in the car not in your garage. The evse is in your garage and just allows the charger in your car to activate it to receive electricity.

 

[DYohn]

All this discussion is interesting and all, but bottom line is was the Ford Corporate team able to get the dealer to do the right thing and fix the vehicle?

 

[AZBill]

But I think my core point stands: a home "charger" (EVSE) pretty much cannot damage a vehicle.

While not likely, an overheated EVSE J1772 connector could damage the charge port in the car, if it goes undetected. That kind of damage would be obvious when looking at the charge port in the car.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

Actually that won’t really help their case.

Specifically it says “damage caused by…..a non-Ford branded part…..is not covered.”

While the whole concept of “voiding a warranty” is garbage, there is specific language about using aftermarket parts that cause damage and how that could lead to a warranty claim being denied.

That said, they have a burden of proof to prove that the aftermarket part CAUSED the damage.

Example- you put a supercharger in your Mustang 5.0. Your window motor goes out- covered. You blow up your transmission- denied.

If an improper installation of the charger occurred or a faulty charger, it’s possible for the OP to get denied and have to go after the installer or charger company for coverage. Or possibly an insurance claim.

But more likely Ford is just going to fix the car because proving the above is….. difficult and the burden of proof is on them.

Examples of some language-
https://performanceparts.ford.com/download/PDFS/fpp-warranty.pdf

Page 13 and 14 of our warranty guide explain what’s not covered-
https://www.fordservicecontent.com/...-E-Warranty-version-2_frdwa_EN-US_06_2021.pdf

This is not an “aftermarket part” situation. It’s a “buying gas from a non-Ford station” one, which is of course ridiculous. Let’s not try to come up with comparisons from the ice age that don’t make sense.

I would dare Ford to say that you can only charge with Ford-branded hardware. That would be the end of their EV vehicles.

 

[shelbycobra]

We are talking about two separate sections of the warranty language.

In addition to what you posted (incompatible charging devices), it states that “damage caused by……non-ford branded parts.”

In this case it’s a question of what caused the damage.

Why would a warranty cover damage “caused by” an aftermarket charger?

Again, the question is what “caused” the damage.

If you have a faulty Tesla branded level 2 home charger that shorts out and fries your car for example, why should that be a Ford warranty claim?

It would be an insurance claim or a claim against Tesla and their faulty charger.

We still haven’t heard from the OP what actually was broken/fixed and what caused it.

OP here. The dealership still has no idea what is wrong.--they have had it for 3 weeks and are still doubling down on the "Ford branded charger" and will only cover it this time under warrantee. FRUSTRATING!!! ChargePoint charger was professionally installed and the car ran flawlessly for 3 trips over a couple of days AFTER I took it off the charger.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

All this discussion is interesting and all, but bottom line is was the Ford Corporate team able to get the dealer to do the right thing and fix the vehicle?

There have only been two working days since the op posted (Friday and Tuesday). It’s unlikely that they’ve been able to get all the information needed and verify there is actually an intransigent dealership then find another suitable dealership.

 

[Mach1E]

"In the weeds" is where contracts live and die and those are the important terms and conditions to read and fully understand. The warranty is a contract between the manufacturer and the owner. The Moss Furgeson Act applied perimeters to mandate warranty language that makes clear what the manufacturer is warranting and what both parties to the warranty are required to do to not breach the contract. To be in compliance with the Act, Ford would have to put in writing in its warranty language that using a non-Ford-branded EVSE will void the warranty. I provided the citation in the Ford BEV warranty what Ford states as a breach of the warranty terms and conditions regarding damages to the vehicle caused by EVSE. The language does not state use of non-Ford-branded EVSE voids the vehicle warranty.

You are applying conjecture that is not material to the discussion.

Who said it voids the warranty?

it doesn’t. It can just make that specific claim get denied.

And as I posted it IS in the language. I posted links too.

 

[Mach1E]

OP here. The dealership still has no idea what is wrong.--they have had it for 3 weeks and are still doubling down on the "Ford branded charger" and will only cover it this time under warrantee. FRUSTRATING!!! ChargePoint charger was professionally installed and the car ran flawlessly for 3 trips over a couple of days AFTER I took it off the charger.

Yeah that super frustrating for sure.

How can they be so sure about the cause if they don’t even know the problem?

Hopefully they figure it out and fix it.

 

[Mach1E]

This is not an “aftermarket part” situation. It’s a “buying gas from a non-Ford station” one, which is of course ridiculous. Let’s not try to come up with comparisons from the ice age that don’t make sense.

I would dare Ford to say that you can only charge with Ford-branded hardware. That would be the end of their EV vehicles.

Actually your analogy works too.

If you buy bad gas (or let’s say they put diesel or water in the gas)that causes damage, it’s also not a warranty claim, it’s an insurance claim.

At the end of the day it’s about something outside of the vehicle causing damage to the vehicle. Warranty never covers it unless it’s a Ford related part.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

Actually your analogy works too.

If you buy bad gas (or let’s say they put diesel or water in the gas)that causes damage, it’s also not a warranty claim, it’s an insurance claim.

At the end of the day it’s about something outside of the vehicle causing damage to the vehicle. Warranty never covers it unless it’s a Ford related part.

EVSE is equivalent to a hose and nozzle. It has no material impact on the electrons charging the battery.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

OP here. The dealership still has no idea what is wrong.--they have had it for 3 weeks and are still doubling down on the "Ford branded charger" and will only cover it this time under warrantee. FRUSTRATING!!! ChargePoint charger was professionally installed and the car ran flawlessly for 3 trips over a couple of days AFTER I took it off the charger.

Find another dealer once this is fixed. A long drive is better than a crappy dealer.

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