Adaptive cruise control can't handle lane-splitting motorcycles

[sukhoi_584th]

I've noticed the vast majority of the time when I'm puttering along in slow traffic in the left lane and am passed on the right by a lane-splitting motorcycle that the adaptive cruise control immediately locks onto the motorcycle as it passes me. The car then aggressively speeds up to follow the motorcycle, completely forgetting about the car in front of me. As soon as the motorcycle gets past the rear of that car the MME realizes it's going way too fast, is rapidly about to rear-end the car, and slams on the brakes. Clearly the algorithm can't handle computations related to two vehicles in front of the MME, and I question if Ford did any ACC testing in California rush hour traffic.

Does Blue Cruise also act like this? It's really rather dangerous, and I normally have to hit the brakes myself to stop the MME from rapidly accelerating. It's of course worse with a faster motorcycle, and when the gap to the car in front is longer than tailgating (I use 2 bars on the follow-o-meter setting with ACC). I'm surprised I couldn't find any other threads here discussing this behavior.

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[ChrisO]

I have never used BlueCruise in a place where motorcycles are doing lane changes because I only use it on long trips, so I can't really answer your question. But I suspect that BlueCruise wouldn't handle this any better than adaptive cruise control. And I would strongly advise against using either BlueCruise of adaptive cruise control in rush hour traffic.

I will note that the lane splitting I see in California goes against the "safe lane splitting guidelines" and even though I have seen it, the police can give them a ticket for it. And one of the key parts of the recommendation is that it shouldn't be done above 30 mph.

 

[Mach-Lee]

Interesting, that may be something that was never tested because lane splitting is extremely rare or illegal in most parts of the USA.

Can you provide more details of when it happens, only when you are moving slowly or when you are completely stopped? About how fast are you going? How fast is the motorcycle going? You are letting it maintain the space itself with a gap set to 2 (no accelerator or brake inputs)? These details will help the engineers.

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[AjzRide]

There is no difference between BlueCruise and Adaptive Cruise Control with Lane Centering, except that your hands don't have to be on the wheel. So yes, BlueCruise would react the same way.

 

[sukhoi_584th]

Interesting, that may be something that was never tested because lane splitting is extremely rare or illegal in most parts of the USA.

Can you provide more details of when it happens, only when you are moving slowly or when you are completely stopped? About how fast are you going? How fast is the motorcycle going? You are letting it maintain the space itself with a gap set to 2 (no accelerator or brake inputs)? These details will help the engineers.

@Ford Motor Company

I'm not sure if it happens from a dead stop as generally when traffic stops that completely I do it with the brake, and there aren't all that many motorcycles on my commute. I probably only get passed by a half-dozen a week. I will update if I am able to test that scenario where I have let the ACC come to a full stop. Usually it waits too long to brake so I end up braking first because I can see traffic farther ahead is already stopped.

It happens most significantly when I'm going around 15-30 mph, as the motorcycles seem most comfortable with a larger speed differential in those conditions. I'd guess they're going 10-20 mph faster than I am.

Yesterday I did notice it happening at faster speeds. I was probably around 50 mph, with the motorcycle 60 mph. The MME acceleration wasn't as dramatic with the lower speed differential, and I let the ACC handle the braking once the motorcycle passed the car in front while I kept my foot hovering over the brake in case the ACC didn't pick up the car again.

And yes, this is happening with the ACC doing the driving with no pedal inputs. I do not have lane centering enabled. I haven't tested this with the motorcycle passing on the left as I'm always in the left (toll) lane during my commute.

Finally, I should note that maybe 20% of the time it doesn't follow the motorcycle. I'm not sure if it doesn't see it, or if it's properly calculating both the car in front and the motorcycle.

 

[ChrisO]

Doing a bit more research on this it seems like the Mach-E can only lock into one vehicle at a time. Given that this situation is introducing a faster vehicle that is closer it isn surprising that it will lock into it. The first result might be hitting the brakes (or not), and it isn’t surprising that it will stay locked into the that vehicle for what might be a dangerous amount of time.

Note that even though the camera is used it is the radar that is the primary sensor.

 

[Mach-Lee]

I'm not sure if it happens from a dead stop as generally when traffic stops that completely I do it with the brake, and there aren't all that many motorcycles on my commute. I probably only get passed by a half-dozen a week. I will update if I am able to test that scenario where I have let the ACC come to a full stop. Usually it waits too long to brake so I end up braking first because I can see traffic farther ahead is already stopped.

It happens most significantly when I'm going around 15-30 mph, as the motorcycles seem most comfortable with a larger speed differential in those conditions. I'd guess they're going 10-20 mph faster than I am.

Yesterday I did notice it happening at faster speeds. I was probably around 50 mph, with the motorcycle 60 mph. The MME acceleration wasn't as dramatic with the lower speed differential, and I let the ACC handle the braking once the motorcycle passed the car in front while I kept my foot hovering over the brake in case the ACC didn't pick up the car again.

And yes, this is happening with the ACC doing the driving with no pedal inputs. I do not have lane centering enabled. I haven't tested this with the motorcycle passing on the left as I'm always in the left (toll) lane during my commute.

Finally, I should note that maybe 20% of the time it doesn't follow the motorcycle. I'm not sure if it doesn't see it, or if it's properly calculating both the car in front and the motorcycle.

Thanks. Does it only do it in the toll lane? Does it have a non-standard spacing between lanes? And have you noticed it happening only on curves, straight sections, or doesn't matter?

It's surprising the radar locks onto the motorcycle because it should be looking at what's in your driving path based on the steering angle (the beam turns with the wheel). So if the wheel and lane are straight it shouldn't lock onto the motorcycle if there is a car in front of you. But if you have the wheel turned to the right slightly I could see that happening.

 

[Arch-E]

Yeah this happens to me consistently with Blue cruise 1.3. Situation is usually going 10-20mph or so straight in the carpool/hov lane. Lane splitting motorcycle rides by and car accelerates to match the speed of the bike, the bike passes the car in front of me and the Mach-E slams on the brakes.

The carpool/hov lane has a double white line on my right side. When the motorcycle passes by it usually is fully in my lane, meaning on the left of the double white, but still very much on the right side of the lane. It may leave the lane a bit just before passing the car in front.

 

[sukhoi_584th]

Thanks. Does it only do it in the toll lane? Does it have a non-standard spacing between lanes? And have you noticed it happening only on curves, straight sections, or doesn't matter?

It's surprising the radar locks onto the motorcycle because it should be looking at what's in your driving path based on the steering angle (the beam turns with the wheel). So if the wheel and lane are straight it shouldn't lock onto the motorcycle if there is a car in front of you. But if you have the wheel turned to the right slightly I could see that happening.

I'll send you a PM with more specifics of exactly where this is happening. Although it's a toll/carpool lane, it's same width and separation as the rest of the lanes with the same dashed lines. I really shouldn't have even mentioned it's a toll lane lol as it's no different from the car's perspective. It's not like in LA or other areas where the toll/carpool lanes are somewhat separated from the other lanes.

Doesn't seem to matter curves vs straight road. The curves on this stretch of road are quite large radius though so the steering wheel isn't turning much.

I have noticed it doesn't matter if I move a bit onto the shoulder to give room, or if the motorcycle comes up on me quickly and I'm still in the middle of the lane.

 

[RickMachE]

And I would strongly advise against using either BlueCruise of adaptive cruise control in rush hour traffic.

In fact, Ford's adaptive cruise with stop and go is designed for traffic and excels in it. For those that use it, the main drawback is that it may allow others to cut in, so you have to sometimes accelerate quicker than it does.

 

[Maui]

I use it a lot and if the traffic is slower I generally use it more.

as for lane splitting, these people are crazy. I saw one of these bikes get wiped out on the way to the LAX airport because someone decided to change lanes at just that same moment. Do these bikers not realize how hard it is to spot this behavior especially if you are bored and tired in stop and go traffic?

 

[music_cities]

There is no difference between BlueCruise and Adaptive Cruise Control with Lane Centering, except that your hands don't have to be on the wheel. So yes, BlueCruise would react the same way.

That's not quite true.

I drive long distances in blue cruise in "hands free" mode but with my hands on the wheel, as my wife has directed me to keep my hands on the wheel. I can definitely feel when bluecruise turns off, the car's behaviour is different.

If the little angle brackets that indicate lane changes are still showing, I might agree that ACC with Lane centering is pretty close to just "Bluecruise without handsfree". But, once those little symbols disappear the car is no longer aware of lanes, and it's just doing centering and cruise control without the situational awareness.

So, I wouldn't be surprised if Bluecruise handles lane-splitting motorcyclists better than ACC with lane-centering. I also wouldn't be surprised if it didn't.

 

[AjzRide]

I can definitely feel when bluecruise turns off, the car's behaviour is different.

I don’t want to come across as a jerk, but “feel” is not proof. I’ve spent hundreds of hours studying the LateralMotionControl2, ACCDATA, LaneAssist, and LaneAssist_FD1 canbus signals for the BluePilot project. I can empirically prove that BC is nothing but a flag to turn off the hand check. I won’t drag this thread further off topic by getting into the details, but if you want to see the data please send me a DM.

 

[ChehRob]

The car should always have a sound and visual when it is going to increase speed by 10mph or more. This should be easy, and it would lessen the impact of misread speed signs and those motorcycles. They can legally interlane in my state.

ps - also those parking lot mishaps.

 

[music_cities]

I don’t want to come across as a jerk, but “feel” is not proof. I’ve spent hundreds of hours studying the LateralMotionControl2, ACCDATA, LaneAssist, and LaneAssist_FD1 canbus signals for the BluePilot project. I can empirically prove that BC is nothing but a flag to turn off the hand check. I won’t drag this thread further off topic by getting into the details, but if you want to see the data please send me a DM.

I might be confusing cause and effect. Sent you a DM.

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