My GT Performance Edition (GTPE) first track launch with videos, timeslip! 0-60 in 4.12s, 1/4 mile in 12.657 @ 100.02 mph

[guyofthesky]

They didn't know the demographic likely. I assume they went after the demo that would be shared with Tesla where there's a larger/different demographic that would consider a Ford but not a Tesla. Plus if they paid any attention to the online presence, the oil/gas lobby has a ton of die hards that are very, very vocal and might drown out the actual demand.

I tell everyone who will listen that EVs are coming fast, because they are better and because in a few years, people will look at an ICE car the same way they look at someone who lights up a cigarette in a restaurant.

But no one really believes, or else they think it is twenty years away. The general public really doesn't "get it" yet, methinks.

Sponsored

 

[Mach1E]

Reading this thread, all 663 posts, has anyone considered the tricky situation Ford is in. To keep the acceleration going after 6-8 seconds Ford has to worry about if this will damage the Battery. On the Etron, Audi engineers spent years working out the 8 second 100% acceleration window, without damaging the Battery, esp. long term. The maximum they were willing to push the envelope is 8 seconds. And even then it is not regularly available and needs a button push. Its not an accident IMO that that is where the software on the GT is intervening right now. People would be well advised to go read some of the write ups from the Audi engineers on all the things they were worrying about. I can bet you Ford Engineers read all of it.

If the cooling system for the GT battery is the same as the AWD ER how are you going to allow 12+ second acceleration windows without battery damage. The answer is you don't. My 'friends' experience on the ER AWD, going past 110 Mph is that there is a lot more power there that is being software limited. We will have to see if Ford engineers get confident enough to open up the acceleration profile. With this early generation car and all the recent recall activity I very seriously doubt it.

Your GT can be launched again and again and again on the same day, hour, minute with this acceleration profile with Zero limitations for Battery damage. Do folks realize how amazing that is for an EV. The only other car that can do this is the Porsche Taycan which cost $50,000 more!!

The other company allows a certain amount of battery damage from hard acceleration and simply software neuters the folks who use it too much to prevent a drop below 70% degradation. It not a fair comparison at all. The Battery neutering for all the hard acceleration folks for the other company is coming, they just don't know it. In fact they won't even be notified. This is simply not an option for Ford.

While it could explain things and it’s possible you are right…… I and others really really hope you’re wrong.

So your answer (hopefully not Fords answer) is: “Sorry we just built an inferior product…… but it’s for your own good.”

And 50 mph (where the performance falls apart) only takes 3 seconds. 3 seconds max of full power would be pathetic compared to the competition.

It also doesn’t explain why the 50-70 is slow (if cruising at 50 and if the battery cooling is the limitation, shouldn’t you still get that 3 seconds full power boost?)

But at least we know your vote on this thread it’s one vote for “nothing to see here, it is performing as designed.”

My vote still goes to “I hope they fix it.”

 

[blue92lx]

I tell everyone who will listen that EVs are coming fast, because they are better and because in a few years, people will look at an ICE car the same way they look at someone who lights up a cigarette in a restaurant.

But no one really believes, or else they think it is twenty years away. The general public really doesn't "get it" yet, methinks.

ICE will be around for a looonnnggg time even if it's just because of used cars that are being driven right now. But people seem to enjoy just ignoring the multiple 2030 demands for all EV in different countries. It's going to happen, and it's going to rush up on people real quick.

 

[theo1000]

I think my two things about this are:

1) Like others have said, so what's up with the slow 50-70mph then?
1a) And like it's been mentioned 500 times here too, why is the AWD version getting higher top speeds in the 1/4? That to me is the biggest thing that says something is wrong, but also should be able to be fixed.

2) How much damage are Tesla's really getting if they have it opened up past 8 seconds? I mean they've been running it this way for a long time and apparently the batteries are still ready to go without losing a lot of functionality or charge capabilities. I'll always give it to Tesla on their tech and efficiency, there's a reason their Marshmallow turtle faced looking Model Y can do the 1/4 mile as fast as it does. If they aren't limiting the run to 8 seconds on the battery, why does everyone else need to do that? Also, they seem to not limit the acceleration nearly as much on lower SOC's either. Playing it safe is good, but people also want to feel the full force of the EV they got and not be limited by it.

Not sure about the 50-70. Havn't seen that even measured on the other EVs. The MachE is the first EV pony car so there are things being measured here that simply were never measured on other EV's. Maybe the Taycan. I think Ford can do better but for first generation they were never going to be anything but cautious. Same with other manufacturers. I think after a year or so they will have more degradation data after the GT get hard accelerated. We will know then if Ford wants to release some more.

This is all common knowledge on the other EV forums and were discussed endlessly and are discussed endlessly. The moment I read the GT has the same cooling system as the AWD ER I knew which way it had to go. No one beats basic physics. I'm just puzzled the GT folks didn't pick up on these things. If you want that fabulous 0-60 upfront you have to trade it back somewhere. Unless you build a upgraded cooling system like the Taycan has. but that is pricy. For instance the Taycan is 800v and has 2 separate cooling system with different refrigerants for Motor vs battery.

WRT TSLA, you won't know when you get throttled. Started happening for Model S's after about 5-6 years. Since the 3 & Y are less than 5 years its coming. Folks who hammer their cars now will get hammered later. Also try your time after you hammer your TSLA 3-4 times the same hour. You will get throttled.

 

[guyofthesky]

While it could explain things and it’s possible you are right…… I and others really really hope you’re wrong.

So your answer (hopefully not Fords answer) is: “Sorry we just built an inferior product…… but it’s for your own good.”

And 50 mph (where the performance falls apart) only takes 3 seconds. 3 seconds max of full power would be pathetic compared to the competition.

It also doesn’t explain why the 50-70 is slow (if cruising at 50 and if the battery cooling is the limitation, shouldn’t you still get that 3 seconds full power boost?)

But at least we know your vote on this thread it’s one vote for “nothing to see here, it is performing as designed.”

My vote still goes to “I hope they fix it.”

To be fair, if Mach1E is correct, and I certainly don't know but found the post interesting, then the problem is "fixable" with an OTA.

So that is an optimistic take, I think.

 

[Mach1E]

ICE will be around for a looonnnggg time even if it's just because of used cars that are being driven right now. But people seem to enjoy just ignoring the multiple 2030 demands for all EV in different countries. It's going to happen, and it's going to rush up on people real quick.

The more the government tries to push hard though, the more people will dig in. If this last couple years reminded us of anything- it’s that people don’t like getting told what to do.

Just build a superior product at competitive prices and it’ll take care of itself.

For acceleration junkies like myself, it’s the straight line acceleration and instant torque that got me to put an order in for a GTPE.

Saving on fuel or saving the planet is very low on my list. I have less than a mile commute to work and my 2015 daily driver has less than 20k miles on it (while averaging 14 mpg). But because I drive so little I bet my footprint is less than most.

So if they can’t deliver the performance (my primary consideration for buying the car), I’m out.

 

[guyofthesky]

Not sure about the 50-70. Havn't seen that even measured on the other EVs. The MachE is the first EV pony car so there are things being measured here that simply were never measured on other EV's. Maybe the Taycan. I think Ford can do better but for first generation they were never going to be anything but cautious. Same with other manufacturers. I think after a year or so they will have more degradation data after the GT get hard accelerated. We will know then if Ford wants to release some more.

This is all common knowledge on the other EV forums and were discussed endlessly and are discussed endlessly. The moment I read the GT has the same cooling system as the AWD ER I knew which way it had to go. No one beats basic physics. I'm just puzzled the GT folks didn't pick up on these things. If you want that fabulous 0-60 upfront you have to trade it back somewhere. Unless you build a upgraded cooling system like the Taycan has. but that is pricy. For instance the Taycan is 800v and has 2 separate cooling system with different refrigerants for Motor vs battery.

WRT TSLA, you won't know when you get throttled. Started happening for Model S's after about 5-6 years. Since the 3 & Y are less than 5 years its coming. Folks who hammer their cars now will get hammered later. Also try your time after you hammer your TSLA 3-4 times the same hour. You will get throttled.

>>Also try your time after you hammer your TSLA 3-4 times the same hour. You will get throttled.

I didn't know about that, but it seems like a good compromise to me.

 

[Mach1E]

Not sure about the 50-70. Havn't seen that even measured on the other EVs. The MachE is the first EV pony car so there are things being measured here that simply were never measured on other EV's. Maybe the Taycan. I think Ford can do better but for first generation they were never going to be anything but cautious. Same with other manufacturers. I think after a year or so they will have more degradation data after the GT get hard accelerated. We will know then if Ford wants to release some more.

This is all common knowledge on the other EV forums and were discussed endlessly and are discussed endlessly. The moment I read the GT has the same cooling system as the AWD ER I knew which way it had to go. No one beats basic physics. I'm just puzzled the GT folks didn't pick up on these things. If you want that fabulous 0-60 upfront you have to trade it back somewhere. Unless you build a upgraded cooling system like the Taycan has. but that is pricy. For instance the Taycan is 800v and has 2 separate cooling system with different refrigerants for Motor vs battery.

WRT TSLA, you won't know when you get throttled. Started happening for Model S's after about 5-6 years. Since the 3 & Y are less than 5 years its coming. Folks who hammer their cars now will get hammered later. Also try your time after you hammer your TSLA 3-4 times the same hour. You will get throttled.

I posted it earlier. The Model Y perf 50-70 is 1.5 seconds and it does 30-70 in 2.8.

There is also tons of Model Y data on back to back runs and different SOC.

The times we see for the GTPE so far aren’t even in the same time zone.

 

[guyofthesky]

The more the government tries to push hard though, the more people will dig in. If this last couple years reminded us of anything- it’s that people don’t like getting told what to do.

Just build a superior product at competitive prices and it’ll take care of itself.

For acceleration junkies like myself, it’s the straight line acceleration and instant torque that got me to put an order in for a GTPE.

Saving on fuel or saving the planet is very low on my list. I have less than a mile commute to work and my 2015 daily driver has less than 20k miles on it (while averaging 14 mpg). But because I drive so little I bet my footprint is less than most.

So if they can’t deliver the performance (my primary consideration for buying the car), I’m out.

Just to clarify, I'm not promoting government mandates.

I am predicting social pressures, which are quite different.

But I agree also that simply building excellent EVs, and improving the charging network, is all that is really needed.

 

[guyofthesky]

Just to clarify, I'm not promoting government mandates.

I am predicting social pressures, which are quite different.

But I agree also that simply building excellent EVs, and improving the charging network, is all that is really needed.

And in the interest of full disclosure, my overall carbon footprint is not probably all that great, at least over the last fifty years.

But I'm working on it...

 

[phil]

Reading this thread, all 663 posts, has anyone considered the tricky situation Ford is in.

This is not a tricky situation at all.

Ford should have simply designed and built the car to the best of their ability, and be honest/transparent about its capabilities and limitations. That would likely be sufficient to earn my business, as well as my respect.

 

[buzznwood]

Sounds like a poor excuse. If the product isn't ready, don't let the marketing team promote dates and deliveries until the product is ready. Over promise, under deliver is never good for a company's reputation. Almost like Tesla's full self driving lol

Yes this has a large steaming pile of BS to it IMO, they already knew from when the reservations opened up from day #1 the % of GT reservations they where getting, it won't have magically come as a surprise to them in the last few months.

The fact they had a higher % of pre orders for GTs should have helped the team and been a good tool when engineers typically have to argue with the bean counters due to there being a lot of interest in that trim level and reasons for not making a piss poor attempt at it.

 

[theo1000]

Why would I buy this Ford when I can buy a MYP and get all the performance the Ford is missing and then, apparently, get a new battery courtesy of the 8 year battery warranty?

I can guarantee TSLA will neuter your car to what ever level is necessary to avoid dropping below 70%, so no you won't be getting a new battery for degradation. They have no intention of honoring it.

Why should you buy the GT? The GT is an amazing vehicle for the current state of EV tech. 3.5 second CUV with 4 doors and repeat launch capability and the ability to take your family of 4 to Disney world. And it has those fabulous looks.

Why don't you drive the car for a day or two before you decide. I was going to get a different EV but one 5 minute drive in the MachE & I was hooked!

There are many who say the EV tech is moving so fast it maybe best to lease them. You should consider that. If not just buy the vehicle that suits you. This is too much money not to get the vehicle you want. Someone else is going to pick up your GT and enjoy it immensely. No worries.

 

[Frankie]

I can guarantee TSLA will neuter your car to what ever level is necessary to avoid dropping below 70%

You guarantee it? How many M3Ps and MYPs has it happened to so far?

BTW IIRC the TSLA battery 'warranty' is 4 year 50,000 miles.

Wrong, that's the bumper to bumper. Maybe you should check again.

The GT is an amazing vehicle for the current state of EV tech. 3.5 second CUV with 4 doors and repeat launch capability and the ability to take your family of 4 to Disney world. And it has those fabulous looks.

How many miles have you put on one? What tests have you seen confirming the 0-60 time of 3.5?

 

[Mach1E]

Just to clarify, I'm not promoting government mandates.

I am predicting social pressures, which are quite different.

But I agree also that simply building excellent EVs, and improving the charging network, is all that is really needed.

Social pressure can be very effective. However, I REALLY hope it doesn’t come to this. The country doesn’t need yet another thing to divide people on.

It’s actually one of the things I love about the Mach E GT. It has the ability to bring together both former Prius drivers and v8 gas guzzler performance car drivers like myself.

But if they can’t deliver on the performance aspect, the Prius driver may be ok with the “compromise” but you’ll lose a ton of ICE drivers who don’t want to spent $70k to compromise on what they want in a vehicle.

Sponsored