Waiting in a non-ZEV state sucks

[Mach-Lee]

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Air_Resources_Board#Section_177_states

If you live in one of the green states that has ZEV (Zero-Emissions Vehicle) program requirements, consider yourself lucky. You're more likely get your Mach-E scheduled for production before the rest of us because of regulatory targets. The rest of us have to wait longer until Ford has produced enough vehicles for your state to get ours. The same is true of some European countries with regulatory targets, such as Norway (more than half of Mach-E production has been exported outside the USA). With limited production capability, this really puts those of us in gray states "in last place" for production scheduling. With the new model year coming, I wonder how things will work if your '21 didn't get built. Do gray state orders go to the end of the line again behind ZEV state and foreign required production? This seems like an ongoing problem until Ford has ample production capacity to supply all the green states (and countries) with enough left over for gray states.

It's worth wondering if placing an order for a '22 in a green state would be faster than waiting for our existing gray-state order to be built...

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[mattbostonmache]

Write your governor and state legislators and say you want your state to become a ZEV state!

it won’t be fast enough for you, but you’ll help futureEV buyers. And help the planet.

 

[HuntingPudel]

While that may be true that there are regulatory things about my state, that didn’t stop Ford from delaying the hell out of my reservation. Grumpy as hell from the wait.

 

[SnBGC]

I hate to say it but it is going to get worse before it gets better. Interest and demand for EVs is growing faster than production capacity and availability.

 

[vinny2487]

I hate to say it but it is going to get worse before it gets better. Interest and demand for EVs is growing faster than production capacity and availability.

And also the chip shortage looking like it's getting worse again with the power outages in China.

 

[timbop]

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Air_Resources_Board#Section_177_states

If you live in one of the green states that has ZEV (Zero-Emissions Vehicle) program requirements, consider yourself lucky. You'll get your Mach-E scheduled for production before the rest of us because of regulatory targets. The rest of us have to wait until Ford has produced enough vehicles for your state to get ours. The same is true of some European countries with regulatory targets, such as Norway (more than half of Mach-E production has been exported outside the USA). With limited production capability, this really puts those of us in gray states "in last place" for production scheduling. With the new model year coming, I wonder how things will work if your '21 didn't get built. Do gray state orders go to the end of the line again behind ZEV state and foreign required production? This seems like an ongoing problem until Ford has ample production capacity to supply all the green states (and countries) with enough left over for gray states.

It's worth wondering if placing an order for a '22 in a green state would be faster than waiting for our existing gray-state order to be built...

Not true AT ALL. It may feel that way to you, but I know for a fact that people in other states got their cars before I got mine, and I ordered the first week ordering was open in November 2019.

 

[macchiaz-o]

The subject of this post could be shortened to "Waiting sucks."

There is no evidence to support the implication that Ford is prioritizing ZEV states and Norway. Distribution thus far appears to be based on where customers have chosen to place orders, and that is all.

Other brands like Hyundai and Toyota have traditionally limited ZEV and PZEV sales in a way that would closely with that map... But that doesn't seem to be the case for Ford with the Mustang Mach-E.

 

[Mach-Lee]

Not true AT ALL. It may feel that way to you, but I know for a fact that people in other states got their cars before I got mine, and I ordered the first week ordering was open in November 2019.

Not saying it's a rule that green will always be first, but it's known that ZEV states get some form of production priority. How much this actually impacts scheduling is up for debate.

The subject of this post could be shortened to "Waiting sucks."

There is no evidence to support the implication that Ford is prioritizing ZEV states and Norway. Distribution thus far appears to be based on where customers have chosen to place orders, and that is all.

Other brands like Hyundai and Toyota have traditionally limited ZEV and PZEV sales in a way that would closely with that map... But that doesn't seem to be the case for Ford with the Mustang Mach-E.

Ford has to sell X electric vehicles in these states or face fines/buy credits. With limited production capacity it seems logical that some additional priority would be given to ZEV states to meet these vehicle targets. Selling an EV in CA vs. another state might also be more economically favorable since it could offset regulatory costs, so that would also factor into priority. Ford employees have hinted at "meeting regulatory quotas" with production. Darren in the InsideEVs interview mentioned needing to divert chips to Europe to meet their quotas there, with a final push for more US-bound production next month.

 

[mkhuffman]

The subject of this post could be shortened to "Waiting sucks."

There is no evidence to support the implication that Ford is prioritizing ZEV states and Norway. Distribution thus far appears to be based on where customers have chosen to place orders, and that is all.

Other brands like Hyundai and Toyota have traditionally limited ZEV and PZEV sales in a way that would closely with that map... But that doesn't seem to be the case for Ford with the Mustang Mach-E.

Except my dealer told me that is exactly what Ford told him they are doing. Not the Norway part, but the prioritizing ZEV states part. It makes sense for them to do it even though it pisses me off. So I found a MME in NJ. I wonder how a Virginia resident buying a BEV from a ZEV state helps that state with their ZEV goals?

 

[macchiaz-o]

Not saying it's a rule that green will always be first, but it's known that ZEV states get some form of production priority. How much this actually impacts scheduling is up for debate.



Ford has to sell X electric vehicles in these states or face fines/buy credits. With limited production capacity it seems logical that some additional priority would be given to ZEV states to meet these vehicle targets. Selling an EV in CA vs. another state might also be more economically favorable since it could offset regulatory costs, so that would also factor into priority. Ford employees have hinted at "meeting regulatory quotas" with production. Darren in the InsideEVs interview mentioned needing to divert chips to Europe to meet their quotas there, with a final push for more US-bound production next month.

I don't disagree with the logic as you've expressed it. But I would suggest that there are additional variables in this equation that you and I will never know.

As I've noticed from monitoring this forum since 2019, the US deliveries of Mustang Mach-E are based on:

• Retail customer direct orders.
• Private allotments to Ford Motor Company high level employees. In other words, short term leases to executives. Some percentage (possibly significant?) of these are non-saleable preproduction units.
• Dealer allotments of Ford Courtesy Transportation Program vehicles -- generally this is ONE vehicle per EV Certified Sales dealership location. Sometimes as many as two or three per location. Most dealers have met the FCTP requirements by now and have sold these units to customers.

That's it. I'm not aware of normal dealer allotments occurring, outside of direct customer custom orders. Dealerships in all fifty states and Puerto Rico were eligible to receive customer orders. So delivery is based on where customers are demanding the product, not aligned to ZEV mandates or penalties.

 

[macchiaz-o]

Except my dealer told me that is exactly what Ford told him they are doing. Not the Norway part, but the prioritizing ZEV states part. It makes sense for them to do it even though it pisses me off. So I found a MME in NJ. I wonder how a Virginia resident buying a BEV from a ZEV state helps that state with their ZEV goals?

Your dealer discouraged you from custom ordering an MME with them?

Or do you mean that you asked about on hand inventory and were given an explanation for why they didn't have any at that time?

You state that you found an MME in NJ but my guess would be that it was ordered by a retail customer that didn't follow through with the purchase. Or it was a demo unit that had met its demo requirements and was now sold. Did it have a Green border window sticker (customer special order)?

 

[mkhuffman]

Your dealer discouraged you from custom ordering an MME with them?

Or do you mean that you asked about on hand inventory and were given an explanation for why they didn't have any at that time?

You state that you found an MME in NJ but my guess would be that it was ordered by a retail customer that didn't follow through with the purchase. Or it was a demo unit that had met its demo requirements and was now sold. Did it have a Green border window sticker (customer special order)?

Oh no, my dealer didn't discourage me at all. I placed an order with them on May 15. I just got an email last week that Ford has finally accepted the order and will be scheduling it for production.

That was about two hours after I told them to cancel my order because I found a GT in NJ and gave them $500 to put my name on it. I am sure it was someone else's order previously (it is currently "in production"), but my question about how my purchase of a ZEV from NJ helps their ZEV goals is still relevant.

And my local dealer told me about the ZEV state priority because a month ago I was complaining about how long it was taking. He was following up with Ford for me. He said that is what Ford told him. Maybe he was lying?

 

[HuntingPudel]

Can’t prove to me that they are prioritizing California. Production of my reservation wouldn’t have been delayed and my order would be further up the queue.

 

[macchiaz-o]

my question about how my purchase of a ZEV from NJ helps their ZEV goals is still relevant.

Not sure... But one of the reasons I bought a Mach-E instead of an Ioniq or Kona Electric was because of availability of sales and service through nearly all of my local Ford dealers.

If I'd bought the Kona Electric, I'd have to fly or drive to California, buy AND title it there, cross state lines back to Arizona, and then immediately retitle it. Apparently Hyundai doesn't get the credits it's after unless the vehicle is first titled to the ZEV state, creating a hassle for out of state consumers like me.

Maybe it works the same way for Ford, but for whatever reasons, Ford chose to sell the vehicle in all 50 states instead of just a dozen.

And my local dealer told me about the ZEV state priority because a month ago I was complaining about how long it was taking. He was following up with Ford for me. He said that is what Ford told him. Maybe he was lying?

My guess is he was lying but that's just my guess.

 

[Mach1E]

Oh no, my dealer didn't discourage me at all. I placed an order with them on May 15. I just got an email last week that Ford has finally accepted the order and will be scheduling it for production.

That was about two hours after I told them to cancel my order because I found a GT in NJ and gave them $500 to put my name on it. I am sure it was someone else's order previously (it is currently "in production"), but my question about how my purchase of a ZEV from NJ helps their ZEV goals is still relevant.

And my local dealer told me about the ZEV state priority because a month ago I was complaining about how long it was taking. He was following up with Ford for me. He said that is what Ford told him. Maybe he was lying?

I don’t think he was lying, but more like guessing.

Since all orders are based on when you reserved and then when you converted your order, what would “prioritizing based on state” even do?

Seems like scheduled production dates were directly linked to when you reserved and when you ordered.

If where you live somehow changed the order of build dates, no pattern seems evident.

I’m in a non green state and the order of build/ship seems to be right in line with my expectations.

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