FordPass - somebody should get fired

[HuntingPudel]

I have a two week old Premium and profile data is never pushed to the car. I've given up trying to sync the FP phone app profile data with the in-car profile data. I want to enjoy driving the car and not be a QA tester for Ford.

Heh, I want a working frunk button. I am assuming that the issue causing my profile to error out is related to my lack of a second row of buttons. Seems like a communication/protocol issue. ?‍?

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[cvk71]

I was speaking with Eric, same confusion about why the key showed up in the key list, but Paak isn't working. @PaaK_Android I think our UI/UX gets more jobs to do

So Paak first downloads the key from the server/cloud, then the key will appear in the list. That doesn't mean the key can control the car, though, because the vehicle doesn't trust the key.

To make the car trust the key, the Paak setup process tries to pair with the Bluetooth in the vehicle and `deliver the key`.

A few things you could try before visiting the dealership:
1. Like Eric said, clean up all the keys by doing a Paak reset: Mache HMI -> General -> Reset -> Paak Reset. (NOT master reset)
After this step, if you go to the key list in FP, you should see all of the keys being wiped out.
2. Go through Paak setup process. (Make sure both key fob and phone are in the cabin during the setup process, and turn on the vehicle)
3. I am not sure if you use iOS/Android. If iOS setup process doesn't work for you, try Android if you have one.

Let me know if you have any success. I have never seen any Android phone couldn't set up with my Mache (I have 3 Android phones Samsung/Pixel/Moto and my wife has One Plus).

I have ios. I have already done the exact steps you've listed. I have even retried them after most FP updates to see if anything has changed. I even tried my wife's phone (ios also) to no avail.

 

[dsuyang]

I'm not arguing with you... I just think there's that "walked in their shoes analogy" here. I can only speak for my background and as a prior product owner and CTO for a software company I can say it's just not that easy. Additionally, FordPass is not just for the MME. They have a whole slew of vehicles since 2018 that use it. If we compare it to Tesla they have 4 cars using the same tech and propulsion method. Some of us can relate to the challenge and I guess that leads us to be naturally defensive of our peers, while at the same time lending constructive and actionable criticism. Critical vagueness can sometimes demoralize.

Hats off to you, Todd. You are not only capable of decompiling the apk, but you also decompile the legacy and business complication issue of FordPass. It is just an insane number of business logic combinations for different model years, ICE, PHEV, BEV, regions, countries, and legals. The list goes on infinitely.

 

[scoopman]

Hats off to you, Todd. You are not only capable of decompiling the apk, but you also decompile the legacy and business complication issue of FordPass. It is just an insane number of business logic combinations for different model years, ICE, PHEV, BEV, regions, countries, and legals. The list goes on infinitely.

Yikes. Sounds like someone needs an EV-specific app!

 

[EELinneman]

Hats off to you, Todd. You are not only capable of decompiling the apk, but you also decompile the legacy and business complication issue of FordPass. It is just an insane number of business logic combinations for different model years, ICE, PHEV, BEV, regions, countries, and legals. The list goes on infinitely.

Is there a way to sign up to be a beta tester of the software? Rudimentary Google searching is not finding an answer. I would imagine that you can find a number of talented, dedicated people on this forum who would be ready, willing, and able to help.

 

[highland58]

Pretty sure GT/GTPE owners have a functional frunk button. I think the newer delivery Selects/Premiums do too.

I don't have a frunk button on FP for my new GT

 

[dsuyang]

I agree it's great they are listening and actually identified themselves in these threads with incendiary titles. Like you I'm trying to be constructive in helping them improve the app here.

TLDR: they are not following developer best practices to help users get the app in a usable state for paak.

I completely understand and know intimately why the Android framework team I was on removed apps abilities to change these things directly themselves. And why runtime permissions were implemented. These are all vectors for abuse by apps.

What I am saying is that any well written app will follow best practices of telling the user context and helping the user to provide the consent. This has all been around since 2015ish. See here https://developer.android.com/training/permissions/usage-notes

Ford Pass can deep link into the places to turn off battery optimization for the app and ensure it isn't being killed by the Doze service. See here for what they should be following with users, and how to ensure they qualify for a Play Store exemption to make such a call in their app. https://developer.android.com/training/monitoring-device-state/doze-standby

FP isn't even trying to use location when paak is set up to ensure the permission consent is triggered and set properly, for example.

Ford is pretty tight with the G these days and I'm sure they could get a Developer Advocate to help them.

I consider the FP Android team very fortunate to have you as our Developer Advocate. ???

It seems that I have a lot of readings to do today. I will get back to you on this.

A confession to make: My wife and I never knew about the `Allow all the time` location permission requirement for several months after we set up Paak for our MachE.

My wife has been bashing me about the Paak reliability, so I turned to @PaaK_Android . @PaaK_Android asked me if I read the instruction at the end of the setup process. I replied: `read what???`

 

[dsuyang]

Hopefully our comments -- in a thread entitled "WHOMEVER MAKES THIS SHOULD BE FIRED!!!" -- are still taken somewhat constructively. Tech products always have a backstory and it's fascinating to me as a product manager to hear user impressions of my product, because I can then connect the "why did you make it this way?!?" comments back to the history of why we actually wound up with what popped out. It's never simple.

This all being said, I drove my car with PAAK alone for the first time this morning to take the 7-year old to school for literally 10 minutes round trip. Car let me in and started up with just my Android phone, a OnePlus 9 Pro (YAYAY!) .... but then halfway in, it gave me an error "key not detected" while driving. My son started asking questions as to why they shipped this! LOL

I think I may need some Over-The-Not-Air updates from @DevSecOps before this may work.

Thank you. Lots of people worried about me being hurt too much by the words. Trust me, and I read similar comments on the Google Play review dozens per day. Those comments are much shorter without an explanation of what happened to them. So I have a pretty strong heart. ?

I enjoyed coming back here because I find people here much more supportive, constructive, and knowledgeable.
?

 

[highland58]

Try deleting the PaaK from the car and doing it again. This allowed me to set up an Android after the iPhone failed. So, now I know it's not the modem in the car.

`General` -> `Reset` -> `Paak Reset`. NOT master reset.

I have not setup Paak on my new car yet. I did the paak reset and FP has a message saying it was reset. I still don't see any frunk button, window button, etc, just horn/lights button. Do I need to setup paak to get the frunk button?

 

[alexgorod]

Are there any known issues with using the fob and PaaK at the same time?

PaaK works for me, but if the phone is not placed on (or near) the charging pad, I'm getting the "Key not found" message, even after it was originally found and while driving or shutting the car down. The right jacket's pocket works better than the special phone pocket on the chest, but still not 100%. I'm done with testing, I just want to drive the car.

 

[BMT1071]

I have not setup Paak on my new car yet. I did the paak reset and FP has a message saying it was reset. I still don't see any frunk button, window button, etc, just horn/lights button. Do I need to setup paak to get the frunk button?

Yes, PaaK must be setup to get the row of buttons for windows/horn & lights/frunk.

 

[scoopman]

Heh, I want a working frunk button. I am assuming that the issue causing my profile to error out is related to my lack of a second row of buttons. Seems like a communication/protocol issue. ?‍?

Yeah this is pretty nice and probably the #1 reason to use PAAK for me

 

[dsuyang]

Are there any known issues with using the fob and PaaK at the same time?

PaaK works for me, but if the phone is not placed on (or near) the charging pad, I'm getting the "Key not found" message, even after it was originally found and while driving or shutting the car down. The right jacket's pocket works better than the special phone pocket on the chest, but still not 100%. I'm done with testing, I just want to drive the car.

For cyber security reasons, Paak constantly tries to verify the presence of keys/phones much more frequently than you might guess.

Of course, it won't shut off the vehicle while the vehicle is already in motion for safety reasons, even it cannot find the keys/phones for a brief moment.

I don't know if I am allowed to talk about the frequency for cyber security reasons, so please don't ask me.

 

[scoopman]

Yeah this is pretty nice and probably the #1 reason to use PAAK for me

Hmmm let me try that again in another video format.

 

[scoopman]

For cyber security reasons, Paak constantly tries to verify the presence of keys/phones much more frequently than you might guess.

Of course, it won't shut off the vehicle while the vehicle is already in motion for safety reasons, even it cannot find the keys/phones for a brief moment.

I don't know if I am allowed to talk about the frequency for cyber security reasons, so please don't ask me.

One suggestion here is perhaps the car shouldn't scream that it can't find the key as quickly as it seems to do. We all can look down at our PAAK-enabled phone or feel it in our pocket to know that this is an erroneous warning.

Showing this warning as frequently as it is doing diminishes confidence in relying on this as the mission-critical way to unlock and drive your car.

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