Hey Ford, can you please add a way to set the charge rate?

[babgvant]

That REALLY sounds to me like a problem with the EVSE, being rated to deliver more charge than the circuit it is on will allow. Isn't this the reason that most smart EVSE's don't let you select amperage with software, and make you use DIP switches instead?

Many "smart" EVSE do this in SW. My ChargePoint does...

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[dml105]

Many "smart" EVSE do this in SW. My ChargePoint does...

I don't have one (yet) so correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the case that it only allows you to revise down from the limit set by the DIPs?

 

[ZuleMME]

To your point; the new NEC rules likely to come out will require that the amperage can only be set on a EVSE in hardware or in a non-easily adjusted way to prevent owners from mis-setting them. But the point remains that in some cases it's useful to adapt a lower level of charging. Not higher, lower...

The best example I can provide is the intelligent owner who knows his panel is oversubscribed and wants to run more things at the same time. If you could tell the car to use less you might be free to start up the dryer or oven without tripping your main breaker... It's infinitely useful to select a charge level between say 6a and the maximum pilot rate the EVSE specifies.

 

[babgvant]

I think the issue here is the car is wide open and it is up to you to set the charging speed separately. I can see lawsuits galore where someone sues a manufacturer because their car did not limit the charge rate and caused a fire! If this is an issue for you then you just need to purchase a mobile EVSE that is small enough to meet your concerns. Perhaps I am being too conservative.

I think you have this turned around, and it's a barrier to EV adoption. Understanding the differences in current/load/amps/etc is too complicated for most drivers. The current is selected via negotiation b/w the EVSE and car. It will not pull more than the EVSE allows.

The ideal scenario is one where all EVs can automatically figure out what the safe load is and adjust accordingly (similar to how that Shell EVSE is supposed to work). That is a complicate thing to do. Having a toggle buried somewhere in the car where you can downrate the car's current request (the EVSE will advertise what it can do so setting a top-end should be VERY easy) when plugged in. Or choose from a list before plugging in should be relatively easy (key word relatively).

Having to buy a bunch of different EVSE and carry them around to deal with a complex world is expensive, complicated, and unnecessary if we had the ability to do it in the car...

 

[babgvant]

I don't have one (yet) so correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the case that it only allows you to revise down from the limit set by the DIPs?

There are no DIP switches in my HomeFlex. You set the max current in the app when you setup the device. The conversation b/w the car and EVSE is really simple: .

 

[ZuleMME]

Having to buy a bunch of different EVSE and carry them around to deal with a complex world is expensive, complicated, and unnecessary if we had the ability to do it in the car...

Like a Tesla... Just saying. Worth pointing out the biggest competition to the Mach-E already has this basic ability.

 

[joebruin77]

The best example I can provide is the intelligent owner who knows his panel is oversubscribed and wants to run more things at the same time. If you could tell the car to use less you might be free to start up the dryer or oven without tripping your main breaker... It's infinitely useful to select a charge level between say 6a and the maximum pilot rate the EVSE specifies.

I completely agree with this. My home has a 200 amp electrical panel. If it is a hot summer day, the air conditioning could be on while we are using the clothes dryer and other electrical appliances. I would be more comfortable plugging in my EV on such a day if I knew it was charging at 20 amps instead of 48 amps.

 

[AKgrampy]

I think you have this turned around, and it's a barrier to EV adoption. Understanding the differences in current/load/amps/etc is too complicated for most drivers. The current is selected via negotiation b/w the EVSE and car. It will not pull more than the EVSE allows.

The ideal scenario is one where all EVs can automatically figure out what the safe load is and adjust accordingly (similar to how that Shell EVSE is supposed to work). That is a complicate thing to do. Having a toggle buried somewhere in the car where you can downrate the car's current request (the EVSE will advertise what it can do so setting a top-end should be VERY easy) when plugged in. Or choose from a list before plugging in should be relatively easy (key word relatively).

Having to buy a bunch of different EVSE and carry them around to deal with a complex world is expensive, complicated, and unnecessary if we had the ability to do it in the car...

I am not saying you are wrong but your opening statement supports my position. Charging may be too complicated for most so expecting the user to know the limitations of the charging system and could lead to issues. Maybe it can all be automatic and it will be safe. As for myself I do understand and have installed the max my electrical service will allow. I will not have to concern myself with juggling load and setting charging parameters. I also know if loading ever is increased, such as a second EV I may wish to charge simultaneously, I just need to increase my service entrance to my house.

 

[elophrie]

2 years later and still nothing from Ford... very disappointing.

I would like to be able to reduce the charging rate to not exceed the production of my solar panels, but no --> it is all or nothing :?

 

[babgvant]

I am not saying you are wrong but your opening statement supports my position. Charging may be too complicated for most so expecting the user to know the limitations of the charging system and could lead to issues. Maybe it can all be automatic and it will be safe. As for myself I do understand and have installed the max my electrical service will allow. I will not have to concern myself with juggling load and setting charging parameters. I also know if loading ever is increased, such as a second EV I may wish to charge simultaneously, I just need to increase my service entrance to my house.

Sorry, maybe there is a disconnect here around how charging negotiation works.

When you plug a car into an EVSE the car asks the EVSE what it can do. The EVSE advertises a number (e.g. 40A), the car only pulls that number (or lower depending on its inverter and charge curve).

So for e.g. if the car supports 48A charging (like the MME), but the EVSE only tells it 24A is OK, the car pulls 24A.

When the EVSE is installed, the biggest number it can support is set in the device. Any number less than or equal to that number is "OK". It's up to the car to respect that.

The car controls how much electricity it pulls, not the EVSE. The EVSE only advises the car, and once they agree on a number, closes the contactors.

There is exactly zero harm in the car pulling a number lower than what the EVSE can support. There are scenarios, like the PV one someone mentioned, where this might be desirable. Another, and this is relevant to everyone here, is getting the 12V battery into a state where those difficult to install OTAs will intall.

There is exactly zero additional harm or risk in allowing people to set the max charge level in the car. It does add risk for those who don't know how this works, and there is benefit for knowledgable owners.

Let's run through some scenarios to demonstrate what I mean.

1. Car set to 48A, plugs into EVSE set to 40A. Car detects 40A OK, pulls 40A (max). All good.
2. Car set to 32A, plugs into EVSE set to 40A. Car detects 40A OK, pulls 32A (max). All good.
3. Car set to 48A, plugs into EVSE set to 48A. Car detects 48A OK, pulls 48A (max). All good.
4. Car set to 32A, plugs into mobile EVSE set to 40A, plugged into 32A (40A*.8) NEMA 14-50 circuit at a RV campground. Car detects 40A OK from EVSE, pulls 32A (max). All good.
5. Car set to 24A, plugs into mobile EVSE set to 32A, plugged into 30A dryer socket with an aftermarket adapter. All good.

Scenarios 4 & 5 aren't currently supportable/safe without an adjustable EVSE.

But, and this is important to understand, there is nothing stopping anyone from doing it right now - besides knowledge. People are going to do what they do.

I wouldn't do 4 & 5 without buying an adjustable EVSE to enable these scenarios, because I know better. But for someone who doesn't know that. They can look at the sockets, and plug in (maybe after buying physical adapters), and roll with it.

There is no added risk or harm by enabling people who understand how this stuff works to do it safely.

 

[AKgrampy]

Sorry, maybe there is a disconnect here around how charging negotiation works.

When you plug a car into an EVSE the car asks the EVSE what it can do. The EVSE advertises a number (e.g. 40A), the car only pulls that number (or lower depending on its inverter and charge curve).

So for e.g. if the car supports 48A charging (like the MME), but the EVSE only tells it 24A is OK, the car pulls 24A.

When the EVSE is installed, the biggest number it can support is set in the device. Any number less than or equal to that number is "OK". It's up to the car to respect that.

The car controls how much electricity it pulls, not the EVSE. The EVSE only advises the car, and once they agree on a number, closes the contactors.

There is exactly zero harm in the car pulling a number lower than what the EVSE can support. There are scenarios, like the PV one someone mentioned, where this might be desirable. Another, and this is relevant to everyone here, is getting the 12V battery into a state where those difficult to install OTAs will intall.

There is exactly zero additional harm or risk in allowing people to set the max charge level in the car. It does add risk for those who don't know how this works, and there is benefit for knowledgable owners.

Let's run through some scenarios to demonstrate what I mean.

1. Car set to 48A, plugs into EVSE set to 40A. Car detects 40A OK, pulls 40A (max). All good.
2. Car set to 32A, plugs into EVSE set to 40A. Car detects 40A OK, pulls 32A (max). All good.
3. Car set to 48A, plugs into EVSE set to 48A. Car detects 48A OK, pulls 48A (max). All good.
4. Car set to 32A, plugs into mobile EVSE set to 40A, plugged into 32A (40A*.8) NEMA 14-50 circuit at a RV campground. Car detects 40A OK from EVSE, pulls 32A (max). All good.
5. Car set to 24A, plugs into mobile EVSE set to 32A, plugged into 30A dryer socket with an aftermarket adapter. All good.

Scenarios 4 & 5 aren't currently supportable/safe without an adjustable EVSE.

But, and this is important to understand, there is nothing stopping anyone from doing it right now - besides knowledge. People are going to do what they do.

I wouldn't do 4 & 5 without buying an adjustable EVSE to enable these scenarios, because I know better. But for someone who doesn't know that. They can look at the sockets, and plug in (maybe after buying physical adapters), and roll with it.

There is no added risk or harm by enabling people who understand how this stuff works to do it safely.

My point was I do not believe the EV can determine the safe charging level. It has a max level and other items determine the constraints. It will take as much as it is allowed up to that max. For instance If someone erroneously installed a 48 Amp EVSE and overloaded their electric service creating an unsafe situation the car would not know that and would charge at 48 Amps.

 

[babgvant]

My point was I do not believe the EV can determine the safe charging level. It has a max level and other items determine the constraints. It will take as much as it is allowed up to that max. For instance If someone erroneously installed a 48 Amp EVSE and overloaded their electric service creating an unsafe situation the car would not know that and would charge at 48 Amps.

It's not the car's job to determine the safe charging level. That's not a realistic ask.

The car negotiates with the EVSE using the [overly simplified] dialog that I outlined before. If the EVSE is lying, there is no way for the car to know that. That's actually part of the problem that what I'm suggesting fixes. We just can't do it now because Ford hasn't enabled it.

Right now, there is no scenario where it is safe to charge with your hypothetically dishonest EVSE. If you plug in, it either blows the circuit or starts a fire. That's unsafe. I totally agree.

With what I'm asking for, and Tesla and Hyundai/Kia does, it would be possible for a person to determine what the safe charging level is, set it in the car, and charge on your hypothetically dishonest EVSE. This allows a person to make informed decisions that aren't currently possible. I'm really struggling with why anyone would think this isn't reasonable, and preferable.

 

[AKgrampy]

It's not the car's job to determine the safe charging level. That's not a realistic ask.

The car negotiates with the EVSE using the [overly simplified] dialog that I outlined before. If the EVSE is lying, there is no way for the car to know that. That's actually part of the problem that what I'm suggesting fixes. We just can't do it now because Ford hasn't enabled it.

Right now, there is no scenario where it is safe to charge with your hypothetically dishonest EVSE. If you plug in, it either blows the circuit or starts a fire. That's unsafe. I totally agree.

With what I'm asking for, and Tesla and Hyundai/Kia does, it would be possible for a person to determine what the safe charging level is, set it in the car, and charge on your hypothetically dishonest EVSE. This allows a person to make informed decisions that aren't currently possible. I'm really struggling with why anyone would think this isn't reasonable, and preferable.

I think it will always be safer to set up delivery equipment that can provide whatever is a safe level and that is set by the delivery equipment and service equipment installation. The car then just shakes hands and takes as much as it can. Just simpler and safer that way to me.

 

[babgvant]

I think it will always be safer to set up delivery equipment that can provide whatever is a safe level and that is set by the delivery equipment and service equipment installation. The car then just shakes hands and takes as much as it can. Just simpler and safer that way to me.

Sorry, I think the fundamental disconnect is that you don't understand how charge current is negotiated between the car and EVSE.

Trying again, said differently.

1. The EVSE advertises a current (e.g. 40A). This number should be 80% of the circuit breaker rating.
2. The car has a max current that it can support (e.g. 48A).
3. When you connect the car to the EVSE, the car uses the lower of 1 & 2.
4. The car promises to play nice.
5. The EVSE closes the contactors allowing current to flow.

It's very simple conceptually, and not that complicated in application either.

There are times when it is nice to be able to control 2. That's all I'm asking for. Tesla does this. Hyundai/Kia does this. There are probably other OEMs that do it as well. There is absolutely no reason that Ford couldn't.

There is no safety impact to providing this capability. See above (step 1-3).

There is potential benefit to this. Multiple e.g. already provided. There are myriad others.

If you don't want to use the feature because "reasons" that is totally fine. Lowering the value from 48A (what the car supports now) only makes your car charge slower (potentially). Slower is always safer. Simple.

Ultimately, there's no downside here. More flexibility is a good thing. There's no additional risk. There's no new safety concerns.

Hopefully, that cleared it up for you.

 

[AKgrampy]

Sorry, I think the fundamental disconnect is that you don't understand how charge current is negotiated between the car and EVSE.

Trying again, said differently.

1. The EVSE advertises a current (e.g. 40A). This number should be 80% of the circuit breaker rating.
2. The car has a max current that it can support (e.g. 48A).
3. When you connect the car to the EVSE, the car uses the lower of 1 & 2.
4. The car promises to play nice.
5. The EVSE closes the contactors allowing current to flow.

It's very simple conceptually, and not that complicated in application either.

There are times when it is nice to be able to control 2. That's all I'm asking for. Tesla does this. Hyundai/Kia does this. There are probably other OEMs that do it as well. There is absolutely no reason that Ford couldn't.

There is no safety impact to providing this capability. See above (step 1-3).

There is potential benefit to this. Multiple e.g. already provided. There are myriad others.

If you don't want to use the feature because "reasons" that is totally fine. Lowering the value from 48A (what the car supports now) only makes your car charge slower (potentially). Slower is always safer. Simple.

Ultimately, there's no downside here. More flexibility is a good thing. There's no additional risk. There's no new safety concerns.

Hopefully, that cleared it up for you.

I see what you are getting at. I guess it would be nice for someone who would want the option. I know I can vary mine via EVSE if I wish too. My guess is the vast majority just set and forget and have no need to vary their charge speed.

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