Mach E GTPE *Bricked* @ BMW i4 M50 Drive Event !?!

[Capt_Everything]

I wonder if manual disconnect of the power to the HV contactor relay would clear the error code ? If the contactor indeed opens, and is not welded shut, the problem is how to clear the code without a trip to the dealership.

I am thinking that the 'beauty cover' really should have three access holes OEM in future models. either 2" ports, or a removal/hinged area over the LVB +/- and HV contactor relay.

Definitely.

The fact that ford only has plus and minus symbols above the LVB jump terminals is laughable! I had already prepared for an LVB issue by using a hole saw and then buying plugs to create easy access. It's as if servicing and faults were considered a non- issue!

Heck, the Falcon 7x I fly has easy access to the dual main battery terminals for the occasional reset of one of the dozens and dozens of random errors that can pop up during preflight!

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[dtbaker61]

Definitely.

The fact that ford only has plus and minus symbols above the LVB jump terminals is laughable! I had already prepared for an LVB issue by using a hole saw and then buying plugs to create easy access. It's as if servicing and faults were considered a non- issue!

Heck, the Falcon 7x I fly has easy access to the dual main battery terminals for the occasional reset of one of the dozens and dozens of random errors that can pop up during preflight!

one of the first mods I did was gain access to the LVB + / - .... I should have done the relay at the same time, but just removed all the covers instead. That relay really needs to be exposed for Emergency Responders.

I talked to a fireman the other day, and they have been told to 'let it burn' rather than look for a cut loop when they are hauling wrecked EVs. I would be pretty nervous as a tow truck driver if the HV was not disconnected and there was a chance of a HV short starting a fire....

We still don't have access to the fusesbox, which is not accessible unless you pull the frunk tub....

 

[noway]

Is it really possible for any of you to disconnect the DC charger cable without stopping charging first? If so that would be a really bad thing since it would mean the 350V full battery voltage is "kind of" exposed in both the carge plug and charge port, none of those connectors are really made for being exposed without being shut off, and if disconnecting the cable with 400A running through would probably make a pretty big spark..

The HVB contactors is supposed to open and remain open automatically after an accident serious enough for any dagers of voltage to be exposed (this is why they have to work..), it is the same as in ICE vehicles shutting off the fuel pump to prevent pumping fuel over a damaged engine. If the 12V system is shut off the contactors will also open. And those contactors are supposed to stay inside the battery pack unaccessible for any side of the pack to make sure that no voltage can be exposed to anything whenever they are shut off, so they cannot be made accessible, otherwise that access point would be a potential danger since it would still have the full voltage accessible even with contactors open

 

[TonyaE]

Well, today i got to test drive the i4 M50 on a small autox. Nice event, lots of cars, decent seat time.

In fact I'm still here, Stuck here.

Walked back to my GTPE, held the brake, hit the start and the dreaded "STOP SAFELY" red box popped up along with the flashing green start light.

What poop! All the BMW tests drivers getting to see this Ford being a Found On Roadside Dead! No a good look lol.

Hood popped, panels ripped off, attempting a jump of the LVB in case that was the issue and eventually a ground disconnect to attempt a computer test.

All to no avail!

Ford roadside app had a tow truck driver call quickly only to say he wasn't allowed in the state parking lot and road. Called the roadside number and quickly got ran in circles stating the tow truck was contacted, good bye. Of course that one isn't coming so I had to find out who is authorized to tow these roads.

+5000 miles, built Sept 2021, GTPE... was fun up until now.

??‍

 

[Capt_Everything]

Is it really possible for any of you to disconnect the DC charger cable without stopping charging first? If so that would be a really bad thing since it would mean the 350V full battery voltage is "kind of" exposed in both the carge plug and charge port, none of those connectors are really made for being exposed without being shut off, and if disconnecting the cable with 400A running through would probably make a pretty big spark..

The HVB contactors is supposed to open and remain open automatically after an accident serious enough for any dagers of voltage to be exposed (this is why they have to work..), it is the same as in ICE vehicles shutting off the fuel pump to prevent pumping fuel over a damaged engine. If the 12V system is shut off the contactors will also open. And those contactors are supposed to stay inside the battery pack unaccessible for any side of the pack to make sure that no voltage can be exposed to anything whenever they are shut off, so they cannot be made accessible, otherwise that access point would be a potential danger since it would still have the full voltage accessible even with contactors open

Makes sense but, a maintenance access panel would not compromise safety for the end user and would certainly help with maintainability.

The resale on these vehicles will be dog poop if labor is so high to replace components prone to failure!

 

[BMT1071]

Makes sense but, a maintenance access panel would not compromise safety for the end user and would certainly help with maintainability.

The resale on these vehicles will be dog poop if labor is so high to replace components prone to failure!

IDK about that. German cars, BMW in particular, are notorious for high repair costs and they seem to hold value pretty well.

 

[Mach_Enrique]

Interesting, I can say the few times I DCFC I've used the button next to the charge port to disconnect and then after the lights stop cycling I pull the plug out. If the theory is correct until the unlock programming is changed to delay the withdrawal I'd have no problem waiting several second before unplugging.

More interesting things on DCFC. Today I drove home to Denver from Kansas after my car was brick repaired (new BECM, etc. repair...I have a whole thread on that trip). I charged three times before getting to Denver. Each time I did the following when done (never once touching the ring/lock on the vehicle). The car was DCFC 5 times on the trip prior to the bricking incident.

1. Pressed stop charging on the EA screen.
2. Screen says unplug now
3. Go to unplug...every time the I go to unplug I note the charge ring by the port is red/orange
4. I unplug and return cable to station.
5. I start the car.
6. I get a "charging error" message when I start the car on center display (I did not note the exact words, sorry...should have done a screen shot) but the car starts just fine and you clear it with the 'OK' button.
7. On my way I go

Is the "error" message normal when folks start the car after they finish charging on EA charger? Just fishing for issues...I just assumed this was normal as it happened every time I DCFC'd the car.

 

[Capt_Everything]

More interesting things on DCFC. Today I drove home to Denver from Kansas after my car was brick repaired (new BECM, etc. repair...I have a whole thread on that trip). I charged three times before getting to Denver. Each time I did the following when done (never once touching the ring/lock on the vehicle). The car was DCFC 5 times on the trip prior to the bricking incident.

1. Pressed stop charging on the EA screen.
2. Screen says unplug now
3. Go to unplug...every time the I go to unplug I note the charge ring by the port is red/orange
4. I unplug and return cable to station.
5. I start the car.
6. I get a "charging error" message when I start the car on center display (I did not note the exact words, sorry...should have done a screen shot) but the car starts just fine and you clear it with the 'OK' button.
7. On my way I go

Is the "error" message normal when folks start the car after they finish charging on EA charger? Just fishing for issues...I just assumed this was normal as it happened every time I DCFC'd the car.

The 'error' comes from the car expecting to keep DCFC when you tell the charger to shutdown. The error does not occur when you press the charge button near the charge port because the car shuts down the DCFC. This should in turn tells the charger to close the DCFC session.

 

[chrisGT]

The error message when you stop the charge from the EA charger is a software bug.
I had two other EV brands, and none had this issue. One of them I was charging at EA all the time because it had free charging and it was a lease so I didn't care about battery degradation. In those other EVs, I could stop charging either from their mobile app or from inside the car from their infotainmentor with the button next to the cable port. For MME I haven't found another way other than the button. Also, sometimes, after you push the button, the light stays blue.. This happens all the time with L2 charging.

 

[chrisGT]

yes, this and other reports are leading me to think the contactor is getting welded closed.... sensors catch the error and brick the car. Since this could occur either on connect (without enough pre-charge), or disconnect (while under load).

I've seen a little bit of pitting on main contactors when they are 'keyed closed' without pre-charge in DIY EVs.... But the capacitors in EVs charge pretty fast and the arcing I've seen doesn't have time to weld, just pit a little. This leads me to the more likely possibility that there is a problem in sequencing the reduction of charge current before the contactor attempts to snap open when DISCONNECTING from a DCFC while the charge is still in progress at high current.

The only recommendation I can think of is that people using DCFC should be sure to depress the thumblatch, and wait a couple seconds before pulling the plug.

That is a good theory, but if it was true, why doesn't the error message come up right away when the car is started after DCFC? Why aren't the cars bricked at EA stations? What keeps them running for a few days?

 

[JohnFoxeSheets]

One of them I was charging at EA all the time because it had free charging and it was a lease so I didn't care about battery degradation.

Note to self: never buy a lease EV!

 

[chrisGT]

Note to self: never buy a lease EV!

Battery degradation is not the problem. If it degrades too much, you get a new one for free under the 8-year battery warranty.

But I would never buy and never own any EV outside of its factory warranty. The previous EV I had was the most unreliable car I ever owned. At least repairs were covered by warranty. Have you asked yourself what the repair bill would be for a bricked MME?

 

[RickMachE]

The 'error' comes from the car expecting to keep DCFC when you tell the charger to shutdown. The error does not occur when you press the charge button near the charge port because the car shuts down the DCFC. This should in turn tells the charger to close the DCFC session.

Right. So always push the button next to the chargeport on the car, OR the button inside the vehicle on the screen. Pretty simple.

 

[generaltso]

Sometimes, after you push the button, the light stays blue.. This happens all the time with L2 charging.

You don’t have to push the button for L2 charging.

 

[RickMachE]

You don’t have to push the button for L2 charging.

Right. It does absolutely nothing with L2.

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