What to do about someone who unplugged my car

[HuntingPudel]

If you lookup the J2772 spec, there is a "short pin" for sensing the connection. It will be the last pin to make contact when inserting, and the first pin to lose contact when disconnecting. As soon as the EVSE sees the sense pin go away, it disconnects power. This happens at the speed of electricity, so probably no human can be quick enough to cause orcs / etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772#Safety

I know what the standard says. Implementation by various manufacturers often is more to the spirit of the law rather than to the written word. I used to take that as gospel until reading about peoples’ issues with the HVBJB. ??

For most EVSEs, the short pin seems to be a power-down request. There are people on the forum who have never DCFC charged who are having HVBJB problems and the conjecture is that the request is not completing quickly enough. See the threads about HVBJBs needing to be replaced. ?‍?

The latch button is also supposed to cut power. Most EVSEs do not open their contactors immediately upon depression of the release button. The audible decoupling of the contactors usually does not happen until more than 250ms after the button is depressed. People who have observed this recommend pressing the button but not removing the connection until after some time has passed. This behavior has also been documented in the threads having to do with HVBJB failures. ?‍?

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[Logal727]

Um, you were in Daytona. Be thankful they even had a charger ?

Surprisingly large amount of chargers in Daytona, I know of 3 DCFC stations within 5 mile radius, EA, EVGO and FPL.

 

[kevC]

This is hilarious. If I knew you, I’d follow you around and unplug your car day after day. You really gotta get over yourself and maybe act like you aren’t the most important person in the world dealing with a priceless piece of art.

But the big strong man will beat you up! Aren't you scared? He's SOO TOUGH!

 

[jonkMACHE]

It basically has to be this location in NYC that op has described

edit: jonkMache got scared and asked that I remove this. So much for "I really hope you run into me while doing it ".

so if you're ever in new york and see a premium grabber blue charging in this garage be sure to unplug it!

Since since you decided to make the issue public I'll respond publicly as well (also reporting it to the moderators to let them handle it).

I do stand by my words. Of course I'm not going to start a fist-fight over someone unplugging my vehicle. That would be silly and immature. I left what I'd actually do vague as I know it gets the better of people's emotions and makes for good conversation, but in all seriousness if I saw you unplugging my car, I'd tell you it wasn't cool and then probably give you my number and just ask that you call me next time, and I'd be happy to move it. Charging or not charging I'd do that even for someone I didn't like.

And since you mentioned it, no, it's not cool to speculate about someone's location. Thankfully you were wrong, but if a guessing game started someone would have likely got it eventually, as there aren't many grabber blue MachE's around. Crime being what it is in the city, it wouldn't be so far fetched that someone might come around to key it up to have a little fun. I've seen one other GB ME in the city... what if he gets keyed up over this thread?

We're here to talk about a car which we all like - we can disagree on an issue without doing this stuff...

 

[Mirak]

You want the same thing that I and everyone else wants: free electricity in a convienent parking location. So spare me your fake virtue.

Speaking of fake virtue….

You have no more nobility about the issue than I do - the only difference between you and I is that I don't cry like a baby when the parking lot is full. If I see the L2 charging spots taken (often times it's an entire row of Teslas 100% charged), I shrug my shoulders and park somewhere else, and if I desperately need a charge, I go to the DCFC spot and pay $2.50. I would never take it upon myself to touch someone else's property - for liability reasons alone - if that Model X for whatever reason doesn't start up, he'll review the security footage, and you will be the one on the wrong end of a lawsuit.

I am not a jerk about moving my car. If someone asked me to, I'd move it right away, and I don't let a fully charged car sit there all weekend. However, I'm not going to set my alarm so that at 3am in the morning when the car is at 99% I wake up all groggy-eyed and move it. And if you think that gives you a right to yank the charging cord out of my car - I really hope you run into me while doing it. You'll think twice about doing it again, I guarantee you that!

LOL. Your entire post is fake virtue. You are throwing a temper tantrum over somebody unplugging your fully-charged vehicle. You do not understand EV etiquette. And the deeper you dig, the funnier it is. By all means, keep trying to justify your tantrum.

 

[kevC]

Speaking of fake virtue….



LOL. Your entire post is fake virtue. You are throwing a temper tantrum over somebody unplugging your fully-charged vehicle. You do not understand EV etiquette. And the deeper you dig, the funnier it is. By all means, keep trying to justify your tantrum.

You fail to understand that normal EV etiquette does not apply to the OP, as he is the most important person to ever own an EV.

 

[RickMachE]

So I've only ever used DCFC once and did NOT use the little unlock in the charge circle, but instead just stopped the session on the DCFC UI.

Is there any difference in how we end the session (that makes one better than the other)?

Not only might the car throw an error, but you can lock up your EA account. We had this happen one day and couldn't charge at the next stop until we opened the app on a separate phone. Turns out we got a bit of free charging that day because EA's IT department had to reset our account.

 

[MisterSofa]

Amtrak’s employees probably outnumber the passengers, so I think you’re ok.

There is the East coast and the West coast. Everything in between doesn't count. Have you ever seen a train in Kansas?

 

[nvabill]

I'm not going to set my alarm so that at 3am in the morning when the car is at 99% I wake up all groggy-eyed and move it. And if you think that gives you a right to yank the charging cord out of my car - I really hope you run into me while doing it. You'll think twice about doing it again, I guarantee you that!

Man, this is getting funnier with every page, all this tough talk behind the keypoard and you don't even have the courage to speak with the Tesla owner face to face who unplugged your car, hilarious! ?

 

[TheSteelRider]

Everyone makes a good point about the auto-disconnect features. I was not aware of them and knowing that puts me more at ease. My primary concern is not damaging the car - I could care less about the free juice. Admittedly, I work around extremely hazardous electrical voltages so I'm a little jaded about the issue.

By the way - electricians typically use switching relays to disconnect power. The little 'click' you hear when the power turns on/off is the relay pulling in/out. The switch uses mechanical motion to separate the contactor, so while fast (10-20ms) it's not quite the same as speed of electricity. 99.9% of the time you won't have an issue, but relays do go bad after a certain # of uses, and there are scenarios where they can fail - so again, I would never risk damaging someone's property by pulling a charging cord out of a car.

Against my better judgement, I'll keep trying.

GFCI circuits that are really common especially in U.S. households have a response time in the 50ms - 150 ms range, and at 120 / 240 volts and a very common 15A of current, that is less time than it takes for the electricity to kill you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device#Break_time_(response_speed)


I am pretty confident the engineers that developed the J1772 specification, and the engineers that developed the commercial EVSEs that you use are able to similarly protect you and your EV.

The relays you mention are the relays in the EV itself, I believe they are usually referred to as the HVB disconnect. And, yes those are electromechanical.

Here is a timestamped section of a Jerryrigeverything video showing the HVB relays in action (P.S. I highly recommend watching his entire Homemade Hummer EV series, very educational)



But, those are not the relays that are saving your life at an L2 station!
When you L2 charge, the A/C is being driven by the EVSE itself. The car has diode protection. So, these HVB relays are not in play. The car itself CANNOT kill you, even if you magically remove the cord and stick your tongue on the pins in the connector on your car in just a couple of mS. When you A/C charge, the A/C is being fed to your car's AC/DC convertor circuit, THEN to the batteries (e.g., there is a piece of safety equipment in the middle).

Ok, but what about DCFC? When you DCFC, the EVSE is feeding DC directly to your battery. ** BUT ** that is why the connector locks into place when you charge. The physical act of pressing a button to release is many times longer than it takes to flip the electromechanical relays back.

In short, if you are legitimately scared that your EV will turn into Emperor Palpatine and shoot lightening bolts at you, then really you should be paranoid about every electrical circuit in your house. Those GFCIs that save your life are also electromechanical relays ...

 

[TheSteelRider]

I know what the standard says. Implementation by various manufacturers often is more to the spirit of the law rather than to the written word. I used to take that as gospel until reading about peoples’ issues with the HVBJB. ??

For most EVSEs, the short pin seems to be a power-down request. There are people on the forum who have never DCFC charged who are having HVBJB problems and the conjecture is that the request is not completing quickly enough. See the threads about HVBJBs needing to be replaced. ?‍?

The latch button is also supposed to cut power. Most EVSEs do not open their contactors immediately upon depression of the release button. The audible decoupling of the contactors usually does not happen until more than 250ms after the button is depressed. People who have observed this recommend pressing the button but not removing the connection until after some time has passed. This behavior has also been documented in the threads having to do with HVBJB failures. ?‍?

I am having a difficult time attempting to understand how, in under 250 mS, a person can press a button, wait for an unlock, remove a cable, then insert some sort of metallic sharp object in such a way as to make contact with the correct pins. I understand the theoretical issue, but by golly can we agree that a significant number of things need to go wrong before a real world issue can happen?

 

[HuntingPudel]

I am having a difficult time attempting to understand how, in under 250 mS, a person can press a button, wait for an unlock, remove a cable, then insert some sort of metallic sharp object in such a way as to make contact with the correct pins. I understand the theoretical issue, but by golly can we agree that a significant number of things need to go wrong before a real world issue can happen?

It has nothing to do with inserting a foreign object. Peoples’ HVBJB contactors are getting fried due to arcing because the disconnect event is happening prior to the power-down event. This condition is leading to one of two problems. Either the contactors are getting welded closed or they are getting stuck open. Either case is undesirable. ??

 

[TheSteelRider]

It has nothing to do with inserting a foreign object. Peoples’ HVBJB contactors are getting fried due to arcing because the disconnect event is happening prior to the power-down event. This condition is leading to one of two problems. Either the contactors are getting welded closed or they are getting stuck open. Either case is undesirable. ??

It sounds to me like anyone concerned that much about this issue that they are terrified of ever removing a charging cable from a car should probably buy the Mercedes AA Class instead

https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/new-mercedes/3021121

 

[JCHLi]

You need to play the long game here. First, track them down, do some research on their likes and dislikes, develop a friendship over the course of a few years, while doing this research college football statistics (specifically the Big 10), then when the time is right, invite them to a MSU football game but say they should drive, pray that MSU wins and the rest will handle itself...

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