Just Did My First DCFC at EA - 2 Questions

[HuntingPudel]

Peak charging rate on the MME extended battery is actually in the 160 range. It only saves a couple of minutes using a 350KW charger over a 150KW charger due to the charging curve dipping lower with higher SoC. The 350KW chargers I have used were impossible for me to tell apart from the 150s because they didn’t have a sticker you could read while pulling into the space. I had to read the tiny print on the manufacturer’s plate that is on the side of the unit. Fortunately nobody needed a 350 when I was plugged into any of them. I wasn’t about to unplug and move, then have to answer dumb questions from my sister. ??

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[TRP]

You can call me a jerk if you want, but if a 350 is open when I arrive.....I use it

 

[Garbone]

So.... because other people are inconsiderate pricks means you should be one before they can be one? A public bathroom is something most people want to be out of in less than 1-2 minutes, charging can take 45-60 minutes. It's not the same.

Well if there are 2 stalls open I usually take the one that is easiest to park in. Odds are if only 2 are open one is probably broken anyway. If it was really important EA would color code the units so it would be easier.

 

[woody]

Since the testimonials seem to say there is not much difference between the 150 and 350 with the MME, why not let the other guys have their way and thereby keep the peace? Since they seem to be not learned on the insignificant differences. Just let them have their false sense of superiority and.... enjoy the ride. Avoid the hassle.
Common sense applied. Perhaps the other guys have none. Not much can be done about that on the spot.
350 would theoretically produce more heat....(HVBJB)? Is there room temperature super conductivity out there? Or?
Have fun

does the tree hitting the ground make a noise if no one is there?
No one there, use the convenient (working) station

 

[DevSecOps]

Since the testimonials seem to say there is not much difference between the 150 and 350 with the MME, why not let the other guys have their way and thereby keep the peace? Since they seem to be not learned on the insignificant differences. Just let them have their false sense of superiority and.... enjoy the ride. Avoid the hassle.
Common sense applied. Perhaps the other guys have none. Not much can be done about that on the spot.
350 would theoretically produce more heat....(HVBJB)? Is there room temperature super conductivity out there? Or?
Have fun

does the tree hitting the ground make a noise if no one is there?
No one there, use the convenient (working) station

The MME charges at a max of 150, but other vehicles can take advantage of higher kW delivery. If we consciously choose a 350 over a 150 then we are taking a spot that another vehicle could take full advantage of. Unless there's no other option, common sense and courtesy is to leave it for the vehicle that can take advantage of it. I would be pissed if a bunch of e-golfs occupied all the 150s when there's a bunch of 50s open. That would almost double my charge time on a 50kW. It's just rude.

The 350 will not cause more heat (except marginally for 1 minute due to 16kW extra being delivered). The car will request the same power on a 150. Just because the charge station is capable of 350kW doesn't mean it will deliver it if the car isn't requesting it.

No one there... Use the 150, because in the 45 minutes you'll be there someone might show up that could fully take advantage of the 350. Of course, if 350 is the only option, then use the 350. No one is debating that.

I don't understand why being courteous and polite is so hard for people.

 

[woody]

The MME charges at a max of 150, but other vehicles can take advantage of higher amperage. If we consciously choose a 350 over a 150 then we are taking a spot that another vehicle could take full advantage of. Unless there's no other option, common sense and courtesy is to leave it for the vehicle that can take advantage of it. I would be pissed if a bunch of e-golfs occupied all the 150s when there's a bunch of 50s open. That would almost double my charge time on a 50 amp. It's just rude.

The 350 will not cause more heat. The car will request the amperage to only pull 150. Just because the charge station is capable of 350 doesn't mean it will deliver it if the car isn't requesting it.

No one there... Use the 150, because in the 45 minutes you'll be there someone might show up that could fully take advantage of the 350.

Of course, if 350 is the only option, then use the 350. No one is debating that.

I don't understand why being courteous and polite is so hard for people.

OK then.
Only working ("convenient (working) station") station a 350(can't have it both ways - 150 only/350 sometimes), leave. Coast to the next station.
Just use Level 2. No heat there... Don't bother with fast charging. No heat difference/energy transfer there. Not really charging any faster, therefore no more heat transfer, don't bother with fast charging.
Hmmm...... My cables are warm when Level 1 or Level 2 charging and my EVSE provides a much shorter charge time than 110 Level 1. Must be doing it wrong the last five years.
350 is not providing more electrons than the 150, the 150 not more than Level 2, and level 2 not more than Level 1. Then there is no more heat/energy transfer, but they somehow charge faster at the higher rates. Must be new physics.
odd as it seems, my phone fast charger is much warmer than regular slow charging.

 

[DevSecOps]

OK then.
Only working ("convenient (working) station") station a 350(can't have it both ways - 150 only/350 sometimes), leave. Coast to the next station.
Just use Level 2. No heat there... Don't bother with fast charging. No heat difference/energy transfer there. Not really charging any faster, therefore no more heat transfer, don't bother with fast charging.
Hmmm...... My cables are warm when Level 1 or Level 2 charging and my EVSE provides a much shorter charge time than 110 Level 1. Must be doing it wrong the last five years.
350 is not providing more electrons than the 150, the 150 not more than Level 2, and level 2 not more than Level 1. Then there is no more heat/energy transfer, but they somehow charge faster at the higher rates. Must be new physics.
odd as it seems, my phone fast charger is much warmer than regular slow charging.

I'll say this one more time. The car only gets the power it requests. Just because a charger can provide more power doesn't mean the car gets that power. 150/350 are max capacities of the charger, it's not the power automatically fed to the car. The car constantly communicates/negotiates with the charger to provide only the power it wants.

Level 2 is AC power, not DC power. Level 1 is 120v instead of 240 L2. They are all vastly different, delivery different amounts of power and charge at different speeds. That being said, the cars max receivable power limit can only be obtained with DCFC. They cannot be considered equals and heat generated is always going to be higher the more power DELIVERED.

You comment was that 350 DCFC units will cause more heat than 150 DCFC units. That's just not true because they both DELIVER the same amount of power to the car.

Using a household receptacle rated for 15 amps, as a more simplistic example, do you think all things plugged in use 15 amps? No they don't. 15 amps is just the max that circuit can handle before it trips. The device only gets the amps needed.

 

[rcechinel]

OK then.
Only working ("convenient (working) station") station a 350(can't have it both ways - 150 only/350 sometimes), leave. Coast to the next station.
Just use Level 2. No heat there... Don't bother with fast charging. No heat difference/energy transfer there. Not really charging any faster, therefore no more heat transfer, don't bother with fast charging.
Hmmm...... My cables are warm when Level 1 or Level 2 charging and my EVSE provides a much shorter charge time than 110 Level 1. Must be doing it wrong the last five years.
350 is not providing more electrons than the 150, the 150 not more than Level 2, and level 2 not more than Level 1. Then there is no more heat/energy transfer, but they somehow charge faster at the higher rates. Must be new physics.
odd as it seems, my phone fast charger is much warmer than regular slow charging.

Nothing new in physics. Power (watts) = Voltage (volts) x Current (amperes, amps). Which means that power is generated by electrons moving (current) between two points that have a different electrical potential (plus and minus on a battery. The measurement of this potential is volts) through a conductive material.
Electrical equipment will pull as much energy as they need/can, not as much is available. And it's not only the amps. I believe the mach-e has an approximate 400 Volts battery architecture (I found some references to 450 somewhere, which would make the math work better, but I don't know for sure), while a Taycan has a 800-Volt architecture. So a Taycan can draw the double (or 78% more, if the mach-e is 450 volts) of the power (kw) with the same current (amps). It seems EA 150kw is capped at 350 amps (which would suggest a maximum voltage of 429 volts), and the 350kw is capped at the same 350 amps (which would suggest a maximum voltage of 1,000 volts), but I also read 500 amps in some places. Does anyone know the exact specs?
I once found the range of voltage an EA station can adjust to (it was something like 100 to 1,000 volts), but I can't find it now. The car determines what it can take in terms of voltage and amps (hence those precious seconds of handshake), not exactly kilowatts.

All that to say: the mach-e can't take advantage of a 350kw. Electrify America can deliver up to 350 amps. Then the battery architecture comes into play. Tests suggests the taycan can take up to 270 kw. With an 800V battery, it suggests it can pull 337.5 amps. That's why it hits its peak charging at a 350kw EA station (337.5 amps is less than 350 amps the station can deliver).
Depending upon the specs of the mach-e (400V or 450V, with an 150kw station achieving 429V), it might have a slight peak advantage charging on a 350kw stall, but should be negligible.
Lastly, and obviously, the cars can take lower voltage than its nominal architecture, otherwise a Taycan wouldn't even be able to charge on a 150kw stall.

 

[rcechinel]

I'll say this one more time. The car only gets the power it requests. Just because a charger provides more power doesn't mean the car gets that power. 150/350 are max capacities of the charger, it's not the power automatically fed to the car. The car constantly communicates/negotiates with the charger to provide only the power it wants.

Level 2 is AC power, not DC power. Level 1 is 120v instead of 240 L2. They are all vastly different, delivery different amounts of power and charge at different speeds. That being said, the cars max receivable power limit can only be obtained with DCFC. They cannot be considered equals and heat generated is always going to be higher the more power DELIVERED.

You comment was that 350 DCFC units will cause more heat than 150 DCFC units. That's just not true because they both DELIVER the same amount of power to the car.

Using a household receptacle rated for 15 amps, as a more simplistic example, do you think all things plugged in use 15 amps? No they don't. 15 amps is just the max that circuit can handle before it trips. The device only gets the amps needed.

Just a clarification, the heat is generated by the current (amps), not power (watts). That's why cable specs are in amps, not watts. A good example is the transmission lines. They need to deliver high power to a city's electrical substation. Megawatts or gigawatts of power. If they transmitted the power with the same 120 volts you use on each phase of your home electrical panel, the current on those cables would be the on the many thousands of amps, and diameter of the cables would be impractical. So they transmit the power with lines with 220KV to 500KV. This way you can have those "thin" cables you see when you look at the lines (they are still thick and heavy).

 

[DevSecOps]

@rcechinel the MME is a 400v architecture.

The 350kW EA stations are 500A capable. Many have been software limited to 350A for some reason, although I think they might have unlocked their full potential again. They are capable of 1000V.

CCS1 plugs are rated for a max 500A.

Yes an EA 350 will deliver slightly more power to the MME for a few minutes but it's really negligible as you mentioned. The most I've recorded the MME pulling is 380A on an EA 350kW/500A capable charger.

 

[rcechinel]

@rcechinel the MME is a 400v architecture.

The 350kW EA stations are 500A capable, but many have been limited to 350A for some reason. They are capable of 1000V.

CCS1 plugs are rated for a max 500A.

Yes an EA 350 will deliver slightly more power to the MME for a few minutes but it's really negligible as you mentioned.

Thanks for clarifying ?.
The math changes very little.
I will choose a 150kw charger and politely chat with a Bolt driver if he/she connects to a 350kw. It's a no brainer for mach-e drivers. It's a little bit more conflicting if you have a rivian, since it sits between the mach-e and the taycan. The rivian charge curve stays above 150kw up to 45% SOC.

 

[67 Stang Convertible]

With some of the EA stations; the hunt is not how fast the cabinet is; it is if the darn thing is working. Atlanta to Gainesville and back this weekend (and YES my GATORS WON) but the EA station in Valdosta, GA is awful. 1st one I pull up to is not working, 2nd one (350) connects and I watch it and it gets up to 44kw. So I go to a 3rd one (150) and it operates as it should. Got up to 144kw in the 1st few min.

I call EA to let them know; she tells me there's a "ticket" already on the station. I think the biggest problem in the near future is the Hardware of the EA stations is sub par and breaking down within just a year or so of installation.

Stayed at the Holiday inn in Cordele, GA. 8 Telsa (L2) all working perfectly. The 2 charge point L2, no lights on, poll wobbly in the ground. Nothing happens when plugged in. We need the NON-TESLA charging co. to put real infrastructure in and not this CHEAP-A** crap!!! I'm now all for Musk opening his chargers to us!!!

ps. I'll be buying the Tesla adapter for my next hotel trip!!! I saw a Volvo XC40 using one at the hotel.

 

[RickMachE]

With some of the EA stations; the hunt is not how fast the cabinet is; it is if the darn thing is working. Atlanta to Gainesville and back this weekend (and YES my GATORS WON) but the EA station in Valdosta, GA is awful. 1st one I pull up to is not working, 2nd one (350) connects and I watch it and it gets up to 44kw. So I go to a 3rd one (150) and it operates as it should. Got up to 144kw in the 1st few min.

I call EA to let them know; she tells me there's a "ticket" already on the station. I think the biggest problem in the near future is the Hardware of the EA stations is sub par and breaking down within just a year or so of installation.

Stayed at the Holiday inn in Cordele, GA. 8 Telsa (L2) all working perfectly. The 2 charge point L2, no lights on, poll wobbly in the ground. Nothing happens when plugged in. We need the NON-TESLA charging co. to put real infrastructure in and not this CHEAP-A** crap!!! I'm now all for Musk opening his chargers to us!!!

ps. I'll be buying the Tesla adapter for my next hotel trip!!! I saw a Volvo XC40 using one at the hotel.

Apparently you didn't check PlugShare. J-1772 has been broken at that hotel since at least December... https://www.plugshare.com/location/154862

Those destination chargers were installed by an electrician/firm hired by the hotel property owner.

Did you file a complaint with hotel manager? Ask for an adapter?

 

[SprManKalEl]

OK then.
Only working ("convenient (working) station") station a 350(can't have it both ways - 150 only/350 sometimes), leave. Coast to the next station.

Yup! As if you’d be the one to leave the only working charging station on the off chance a car that could use 350 pulled up.

 

[JRSNoVa]

But the only indicator I could find as to what type of unit I was parked next to was a small sign with small print on the front of the cabinet. Is there a way to identify which cabinets are 150kw and 350kw without driving up or walking up to each one? Did I miss something obvious?

You didn't miss anything on the charger capacity markings. EA's markings can be hard to see unless you get close. But at least they have them. EVGo doesn't always have outside markings. You have to look at the screen or the app. I'd like to see some kind of standard color coding so it's easier to tell what you're getting as you pull up.

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