Why I chose a Mach-E over the Tesla Model Y

[Nak]

Interesting. I've never had anything even close to what you're describing, nor have I heard about it from any of my friends who drive Teslas. I'll admit I don't follow Tesla forums. (I already have all the information on Teslas I need.) Do you have Full Self Driving? That's the only thing I could think of that might differentiate your car from the many cars of people I know. I've never heard anything but praise for the Autopilot and would be one of the main reasons I might not get an E. I've logged many, many miles on Autopilot on frequent drives between Portland and Seattle and Tesla Autopilot is three or four orders of magnitude better than anything else I've ever driven.

I just Googled it and yes some folks have had this issue, although it seems pretty few and far between lately. I certainly wouldn't call it "Legend", although if your car does this I can see why you would.

At least we've settled that you use the right stalk for shifting. ?

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[agoldman]

I'm holding out for the Mach E GT over the Y. The things that the Y have right now over the Mach E are; it looks to be out on the street very soon for starters, and you might actually be able to sit in one pretty soon, range is better on the top models, infrastructure seems better for charging, and then I'm pretty much out of other pluses, well depending on how the auto pilot of the GT performs. On the other hand, the Mach E GT is (in my opinion) way better looking, after having seen one in person, I like the interior layout better, it is quite sporty in the GT stance, better rims selection, Sirius!, better color combinations, and last but not least, THE TAX INCENTIVE is still in effect. That is a big deal for now. I'm kind of hoping that any early build issues might be ironed out by the time the Gt starts production, but still, it's a long wait.

 

[Nak]

I think there's plenty of pluses and minuses on both sides, and until we see production versions of both you can't really be sure of a lot of them. The Y "probably" or "maybe" is going to have a 2" receiver and the capability to tow an unknown amount. At least 2000 pounds, perhaps more. That's a pretty big deal for a lot of people, and the 2" hitch would allow all sorts of hitch mounted accessories. But none of that is confirmed yet. The Y won't have a lip at the trunk/hatch access. That'll be a plus for me, a minus for some. I like being able to sit under the hatch like a tailgate and no lip means it's MUCH easier to load/unload heavy bags and luggage. A lip though means your groceries won't fall out when you open the hatch on a hill. The Y will have storage below that level though, so that will mitigate that particular issue. The E has substantially worse charging speeds, both at home and on the road. 30 miles per hour for the Ford's best at home speed compared to 44 for the Y. That can be a big deal when you need to charge in a hurry. The E's efficiency is horrid. That means more battery cycles and more degradation everything else being equal, not to mention higher operating cost. The Y batteries will last longer than the E's; Tesla is years ahead in battery tech. Almost certainly the Y will be significantly faster. The best 0-60 numbers that Ford has actually released are "targeting sub 4 second" and "targeting mid 3 second". Both of those statements could easily mean 3.9 seconds. The Y will most likely be in the 3.3 second area considering Tesla's claim is 3.5. (All variants of the 3 are .2 to .5 seconds quicker to 60 than advertised.) Ford has a large dealer network which will be both a plus and a minus. That dealership network scares me. Dealers make money on maintenance, not so much on selling cars. That the dealers are on board with the Mach E makes me wonder what they know about time it's going to be spending in the shop...

 

[agoldman]

You make a good point aboit charging speed and I think it is going to be some time before anyone can compete with the newly announced 315 range. Still, the looks and the rebate and . . . .

 

[Nak]

You make a good point aboit charging speed and I think it is going to be some time before anyone can compete with the newly announced 315 range. Still, the looks and the rebate and . . . .

Yep. It's why (no pun intended) I'm still looking at both. TBH, the red alone is a big deal to me. Mine will be red and the Ford red is WAY better. That said, do look at both cars in the flesh. They are both better looking in person than in pictures. Neither is particularly photogenic. Especially the Y looks better in person, but the E still has better looks with that "muscle car" aura. The Y in person has a nice refined look though I still prefer the muscle car look. Two things: in person there's not as much of an advantage as it looks on a computer monitor and those muscle car looks are part of the reason the E efficiency is so bad. (That high hood means an equally high CD.)

 

[silverelan]

I think there's plenty of pluses and minuses on both sides, and until we see production versions of both you can't really be sure of a lot of them. The Y "probably" or "maybe" is going to have a 2" receiver and the capability to tow an unknown amount. At least 2000 pounds, perhaps more. That's a pretty big deal for a lot of people, and the 2" hitch would allow all sorts of hitch mounted accessories. But none of that is confirmed yet. The Y won't have a lip at the trunk/hatch access. That'll be a plus for me, a minus for some. I like being able to sit under the hatch like a tailgate and no lip means it's MUCH easier to load/unload heavy bags and luggage. A lip though means your groceries won't fall out when you open the hatch on a hill. The Y will have storage below that level though, so that will mitigate that particular issue. The E has substantially worse charging speeds, both at home and on the road. 30 miles per hour for the Ford's best at home speed compared to 44 for the Y. That can be a big deal when you need to charge in a hurry. The E's efficiency is horrid. That means more battery cycles and more degradation everything else being equal, not to mention higher operating cost. The Y batteries will last longer than the E's; Tesla is years ahead in battery tech. Almost certainly the Y will be significantly faster. The best 0-60 numbers that Ford has actually released are "targeting sub 4 second" and "targeting mid 3 second". Both of those statements could easily mean 3.9 seconds. The Y will most likely be in the 3.3 second area considering Tesla's claim is 3.5. (All variants of the 3 are .2 to .5 seconds quicker to 60 than advertised.) Ford has a large dealer network which will be both a plus and a minus. That dealership network scares me. Dealers make money on maintenance, not so much on selling cars. That the dealers are on board with the Mach E makes me wonder what they know about time it's going to be spending in the shop...

You make some good points, especially with the cargo area and the MME's frontal area drag effect.
Just as Tesla has done with the 3/Y, where the initial specs were sandbagged, Ford appears to be doing the same thing.

• Mach-E's 0-60 times are probably going to improve to match the January 2020 published 4.8 second Model Y 0-60 time.
• battery longevity is comparable to Tesla's. 1200-1500 charge cycles means the ERs will see the same 300k-500k miles for their lifetimes.
• The 150kW charge time is comparable to the Models S/X 100D, but don't be surprised if it's actually a bit better.
• Range will be a bit better than initially announced at the reveal.

Ford genuinely seems proud and excited about this product. I can't wait to see it in the hands of experienced journalists and Bjorn Nyland.

 

[agoldman]

I wonder when the first sitable models will be in showrooms of the E and the Y's? I guess that isn't a "thing" anymore.

oh, and one more little detail of E over Y, NO Rear Wiper on the Y! Thank god Ford had the good sense to include one...

 

[Nak]

• Mach-E's 0-60 times are probably going to improve to match the January 2020 published 4.8 second Model Y 0-60 time.

I hope you're right, but why do you think so?

• battery longevity is comparable to Tesla's. 1200-1500 charge cycles means the ERs will see the same 300k-500k miles for their lifetimes.

Again, I hope you're right. Again, why do you think so? It seems very unlikely given Tesla's acknowledged superiority in this field.

• The 150kW charge time is comparable to the Models S/X 100D, but don't be surprised if it's actually a bit better.

Charge from 10% to 80% may be the same, but miles per hour added to the E will be significantly less than the S.

• Range will be a bit better than initially announced at the reveal.

What is your reasoning/source for this statement?

oh, and one more little detail of E over Y, NO Rear Wiper on the Y! Thank god Ford had the good sense to include one...

I agree that is a benefit to the E, if in fact the Y doesn't have one. (We don't know that yet.) I'm not sure why it's such a big deal to you though? I've never had a car with a steeply sloped rear window where I felt a wiper was really needed. The airflow will keep road grime off of it, unlike a more vertical rear window. TBH, it seems like a waste. Perhaps the spoiler on the E will cause a low pressure area drawing in road grime? I really don't know...

 

[silverelan]

@Nak
From the reddit AMA and from various threads on this forum, we know the following:

• 0-60 time will improve from published target specs. We know the motors on the Mustang Mach-E are de-rated with the smaller front motor dialed back by 25%+ and the larger motor by 25-40% (depending on configuration). Why 4.8s specifically? Because that's the Model Y's published number and it's a convenient target.
• Tesla's battery longevity is spectacular, but it's not unique. Check out the degradation study of 6000 EVs and you'll see that the LG Chem batteries on the Bolt EV are the same or better than the vaunted Tesla Model 3's. https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/
• Range. Dave Pericak (Ford Director of Icons) has said in interviews that unlike other manufacturers and their claims, when he and Ford say the Mach-E will do 300 miles, it will do 300 miles. He wouldn't make that claim and fall short of the EPA target.

If you believe that I'm off base on any of this, please let me know. I love being wrong because it means I'm learning something new. Change my mind.

 

[Billyk24]

The E has substantially worse charging speeds, both at home and on the road. 30 miles per hour for the Ford's best at home speed compared to 44 for the Y. ---Model Y is limited as is the Mach E to 32 miles per hour of level 2 charging. Both can utilize a continuous 48amp 240Volt input for this range.

 

[Billyk24]

reason the E efficiency is so bad. ------your opinion, not any real world facts.

 

[Billyk24]

The Mach E already has a hitch option: https://torkliftcentral.com/ecohitch-results?vid=5147&hitchname=hidden&ft_id=32&v=2

 

[Nak]

If you believe that I'm off base on any of this, please let me know. I love being wrong because it means I'm learning something new.

A man after my own heart. I wasn't implying you were wrong, I just wanted to know the thought process behind the opinions. It's great to see someone on the internet who actually has thought his opinions through! And no, I see nothing wrong with the basis for your opinions. Thanks for the input, I appreciate it.

It occurred to me today, that the Mach e might be far better than advertised. Having a 99 kwh battery is a big deal. It should allow range and performance well in excess of what is currently advertised. It really does make you wonder just what the E will actually be capable of.

It kind of amazes me there hasn't been more talk of that battery as it's something that neither Porsche nor Tesla has managed given the space available in the e. The Taycan and the S are both larger with at least 10% more battery space available. Yet the E has a battery bigger than the Taycan and as big as the S. It's 25% - 30% bigger than the Y battery. That's a big achievement for Ford and should open up a lot of options. A 100 kwh battery should be able to provide enough current to run 0-60 sub 3 seconds...

 

[jlauro]

reason the E efficiency is so bad. ------your opinion, not any real world facts.

Right, AFAIK the closest Ford gave is that it's below 0.30 for the drag coefficient, and they haven't given an exact number yet. The Model X is 0.25, and the Jaguar I-Pace is 0.29 for comparisons.

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