Why I chose a Mach-E over the Tesla Model Y

Billyk24

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Right, AFAIK the closest Ford gave is that it's below 0.30 for the drag coefficient, and they haven't given an exact number yet. The Model X is 0.25, and the Jaguar I-Pace is 0.29 for comparisons.
The Y lacks what the Mach E has for the design of the front wheel wells.
 

pozi240

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Loved reading some really good comments and thought processes around the discussions (both for and against the Mach E --- I am not going to call it a "Mustang" or "MME".... because its NOT. I have a real Mustang already in my garage, but I'm ordering a Mach E for many reasons).
Anyway, we do not (and have not previously) owned a BEV (or even a hybrid), but my wife and I are really excited to finally take the "plunge". We were strongly considering a Model 3 (or even a slightly used S with the dual motor and bigger battery), but, when Ford announced the Mach E, we were excited (long time Ford owners and have inside contacts for great pricing, reservations, etc. --- was offered a GT500 allocation, but it's not in my financial cards right now... dang it. LOL).
I have driven a few Tesla's and I appreciate the technology and the approach Elon and his company takes to making things "just work", and they do , most times, very well. However, the fit/finish and overall quality (I do paint correction/detailing as a hobby), especially the paint (and panel fitment) on most Tesla's is abysmal to say the least... Now, I know, most Tesla owner's (even though a lot will admit the finish and build quality could be better) don't really care too much about that since the reason you buy a Tesla is the technology (and they have that in spades right now). But this is the very reason we want the Mach E... because it looks like a sporty car and the interior will have form and "traditional car" functionality that drivers want.... the Mach E will be a fun car first, and BEV second, whereas the Tesla is more tech first, car second (a function over form analogy if you will). And for non "car people", the Tesla is perfectly fine.... but, I'm a "car guy" through and through, and I refuse to drive an "applicance" like the Tesla. (hell, if I really want a boring appliance like experience, I would buy a Camry or Corolla and call it a day).
And as others have mentioned in this thread already, we really haven't seen anything yet on the numbers/ charging capibility (finalized numbers), and from what the Ford people are alluding to, the initial numbers are just teasors and "minimums". If you have ever followed Ford when they realease (or update) a new model, they ALWAYS sandbag thier numbers, right up until first customer delivery. The Mustang GT500 (and every other Mustang in history for that matter) is proof of that... (they advertised 760hp before release, and owners are getting around 700hp at the wheels on a dyno, which equates to over 800hp at the crank, just as an example).
Hell, my regular Mustang GT was advertised at 460hp, and with just a replacement drop in filter and resonator delete (X pipe), we dynoed it at 457hp at the wheels (over 510 hp at the crank).
You know with that 99kwH battery (and dual motors), when Ford finally finishes the tweaking, it's going to be a monster in acceleration and range will be great.
Also, the autopilot comment.... there was a video way back in November with a Ford Marketing Exec shortly after the launch announcement, and he was specifically asked about autopilot of some kind... and his response was, it wasn't enabled yet, and won't be at launch. I fully believe it will come as an update in the future for sure.
At any rate, this new forum is great and I'm learning a lot about BEV and the charging technology. Thanks!
 

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I've never had anything even close to what you're describing, nor have I heard about it from any of my friends who drive Teslas.
1. Adaptive cruise phantom braking, speeding up and braking unexpectedly very common complaint. LYTMCQ in shop and new Ford Edge adaptive was such a pleasure over the ever surprising (in a bad way) TACC on Model 3.

2. Lane Keeping not working easily demonstrated in any Model 3. Confirmed by Tesla on road test.

3. Blind side indicator issue is also common with many people asking for 3rd party solutions like Rydeen. Getting BSI back was so nice and mirrors that can see the blind spot on Edge above were such a treat.

4. There is no rear cross traffic alert on Model 3.
 
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Billyk24

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Tesla full self driving is still not possible. Tesla has advertised in the near future and/or next year for quite some time. Still in level3. Elon Musk is trying (believing) software can overcome hardware limitations. Not going to happen in the near future for level 4 and 5. Ford build quality has got to be better than Tesla paint, body alignment, and service.

.
 
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macchiaz-o

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Tesla full self driving is still not possible. Tesla has advertised in the near future and/or next year for quite some time. Still in level3. Elon Musk is trying (believing) software can overcome hardware limitations. Not going to happen in the near future for level 4 and 5.
Tesla offers SAE automation levels 0, 1, and 2 only. There aren't any situations in which a Tesla can safely control its motion without requiring a human driver to monitor its environment.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/technology-innovation/automated-vehicles-safety#topic-road-self-driving
 

schmluss

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Well here's why a Model 3 owner is switching.

1. Basic Safeties. Blind Spot Alerts, Lane Keeping, Rear CTA, dynamic cruise. All of these are 2nd rate at best (there is no RCTA) on the Model 3 because the basic functions are hostage to "Full Self Driving" (which is a marketing term and in no way describes car function). Phantom braking and unexpected accel and braking with adaptive are common complaint. Lane Keeping doesn't work on Tesla at all but AutoSteer does). Blind spot is nearly non-functional as it is a gray image on white screen down and to the right on screen vs. in mirror or line of site.

2. Layout. The single screen control is just too much. Having to look right and down away from road and go through menus and touch screen just doesn't work for a lot of basic functions like mirrors, lights, wipers, shifting. Model S and X have an inline screen, 3 does not. S and X also have dedicated controls that 3 does not. In fairness, Tesla has added voice commands to create short cuts to the screen menus and that's a help but basic issues remain.

3. Design and convenience. Inline dash, dedicated controls for essentials, rear wiper.

Tesla does a lot right on the EV side from range to regen so Ford will have to prove it matches in those areas.

Guess I should start keeping a full list as these are all things to look at on MachE based in issues with Model 3 in no particular order of importance.

1. Wipers. Washers are poor design basically don't work on driver's side.
2. Poor BSI
3. No Lane Keeping
4. Adaptive cruise unexpected braking and accel.
5. No Rear cross traffic alert.
6. Various user issues water in trunk, water in trunk lid, need for mudclaps and rocker damage issues.
7. MCU Flash drive issues (will die in 2-4 years)
8. Doors and windows freeze shut. Frameless window must go down to get into car. Never buy frameless window car.
9. Hatchback with wiper and good rear visibility.
10. Separate controls for key functions, wipers, shift, mirrors, lights.
11. Need inline screen with car functions.
12. Good energy usage user interface to see where energy is used and accurate range prediction.
13. Ability to go through car wash (Tesla locks ups for various reasons).
14. 360 back up image and warnings.
15. Side mirrors that can see blind spot from any seat position.
You have laid out all the reasons I reserved a Mach-E. However, my job is changing and I need to get a car in April. I have ordered a Model 3 figuring that if I don’t like it I can sell it for close to what I paid, or trade it in on my Mach-E if I don’t like it.
 

LYTMCQ

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You have laid out all the reasons I reserved a Mach-E. However, my job is changing and I need to get a car in April. I have ordered a Model 3 figuring that if I don’t like it I can sell it for close to what I paid, or trade it in on my Mach-E if I don’t like it.
Resale value on Model 3 is excellent so you can't go wrong in a way. You may not be bothered by the quirks. The car is fun to drive.

I was in same position, tried to buy Kona EV back in May and none around so I got the Model 3.

My car LR AWD Red Silver Wheels AP sells for $52k, which is what I paid for it. Kelly Blue book says $48k with 18,000 miles on it. That's pretty good value.
 

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The Model 3's high resale value is nuts. Even two year old cars are selling close to full original MSRP. I think though part of it is that there's nothing like it on the market. Once the Model Y lands we'll probably see a crap ton of 3s hit the used car market to depress values.

Likewise, the Mustang Mach-E will be pretty unique. There's no mistaking it for a Tesla and that's what I'm counting on. I need Ford to give me that sporty performance without the Tesla baggage. I really don't want to get embarrassed at every stop light by a Tesla though... Ford, please make it faster than 5 seconds to 60mph.
 

LYTMCQ

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Once the Model Y lands we'll probably see a crap ton of 3s hit the used car market to depress values.
Don't think Model 3 owners are going to be selling just because the Model Y is available. The only real difference between them is the wiper less manual hatchback vs. Model 3s trunk.
 

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Don't think Model 3 owners are going to be selling just because the Model Y is available. The only real difference between them is the wiper less manual hatchback vs. Model 3s trunk.
It's not a matter of Model 3 owners selling, it's a matter of would-be Model 3 buyers looking elsewhere as the Y, Mach-e, and other choices hit the market. Demand for the 3 will drop (relative to what it's been). And that lowers the market price.
 

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Don't think Model 3 owners are going to be selling just because the Model Y is available. The only real difference between them is the wiper less manual hatchback vs. Model 3s trunk.
Oh for God's sake. Seriously. I get you don't like your 3, that's fine. Choice is good; I'm looking at the Mach E too. But try and be real. More ground clearance. 50% more cargo space. Power hatchback--which doesn't need wipers. 6" higher seating. 2" bigger diameter tires. Probable 2" tow receiver. Possible variable ride height. You have no idea what the final configuration of the Y is; nobody does but folks at Tesla. But it's patently obvious the Y will be significantly different than the 3.

Information is good. FUD helps no one. Claiming you need to use the touchscreen to shift: FUD and not true. No difference but hatch between Y and 3: FUD and not true.

There are many REAL advantages the Mach e has. Folks that want to make an informed decision between the Y and the E will be best served by learning about real differences between the two.

Y on the left, 3 on the right. I know that it's a very subtle difference, but look closely.
 
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LYTMCQ

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But try and be real. More ground clearance. 50% more cargo space. Power hatchback--which doesn't need wipers. 6" higher seating. 2" bigger diameter tires. Probable 2" tow receiver. Possible variable ride height. You have no idea what the final configuration of the Y is; nobody does but folks at Tesla.
OK...if you consider a few inches here and there "significant". There is no towing on the Y as configured now. You may remember Musk promised towing on Model 3 but US owners don't have it going on three years now, nor the CCS adapter. It's basically the identical car with some sheet metal changes..

To my point, Model 3 owners have no features incentive to get Model Y, it's driving the same car sitting 6" higher and still no rear wiper. Model Y will eat Model 3 sales but Model 3 owners have no reason to dump the M3 for the MY so won't affect used car prices that much.
 

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OK...if you consider a few inches here and there "significant". There is no towing on the Y as configured now. You may remember Musk promised towing on Model 3 but US owners don't have it going on three years now, nor the CCS adapter. It's basically the identical car with some sheet metal changes..

To my point, Model 3 owners have no features incentive to get Model Y, it's driving the same car sitting 6" higher and still no rear wiper. Model Y will eat Model 3 sales but Model 3 owners have no reason to dump the M3 for the MY so won't affect used car prices that much.
What about those who don't have either? Say, someone looking for a used tesla because they can't afford a new one? Assuming a y and 3 are both on use d market, and y is more popular, 3 prices will fall in order to move them.
 

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