kdryden99

Well-Known Member
First Name
Richard
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Threads
33
Messages
1,643
Reaction score
1,426
Location
Montreal Canada
Vehicles
Nissan Sentra Spec-V, Infinite Blue Mach E4X Prem
Country flag
I see a problem with people bitching about things when they have no reasonable basis to bitch.

1. You have arrogated to yourself the right to decide which vehicles are similar. For several reason -- including ride and reliability -- I don't think the Model Y is all the competitive with the MME. You seem to think otherwise. That's fine because it's your money and you have a right to your opinion. But it's my money and I have a right to my opinion, so stop trying to force your opinion on me.

2. The corollary is that bitching about the terms and conditions of the sale is a waste of time. The cold reality is that Ford gets to set the terms of a sale and you are free to to take it or not. If you think the Model Y is a better deal, get it. No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to get a MME. No purpose is served, including helping your mental state, by your continued bitching about something over which you have no control. Everyone understands that you want to pay less. Me too.

3. On the specifics of the bitching, as mentioned ad nauseam, a contract residual and the FMV at the end of the lease are not the same things. If you think you will want to keep the car then you want a low residual. If you don't then you want a high residual. But in neither case does the residual necessarily reflect FMV at the end of the lease.

4. On the specifics of the bitching, if the tax credit is treated as a reduction in MSRP, which is what it is, then the residual in three years is 55% and in four years 45%. That seems fair and hardly objectionable.

5. On the specifics of the bitching, the "lease" payment on a Model Y is not all the different from a lease payment on a MME. Seems to be less than fifty bucks (if you subtract out the incentives included for both the Model Y and the MME). And that is before you include the hands free driving option. Do that and the Model Y payments are more than the MME payments plus the hands free driving subscription.

6. On the specifics of the bitching, you have far more options with the MME. If the payments on a Premium with AWD and an extended battery are too high, go with a CA Route 1 or a Premium with a standard battery. The payments will be less. Nice you have those "options".

7. On whether the Model Y is comparable to the MME, there are advantages in not leasing the least reliable vehicle on the market. I don't want to be bothered taking a new car in to get a door adjusted, much less having to put up with multiple attempts to fix a door that doesn't work.
1) Im not forcing my opinion on anyone, i expressed my opinion and asked if anybody feels the same. That is trying to validate if im missing something or if im out to lunch. I compare the 2 cars only based on price and the size and the fact that they are both EV's. Plain and simple.
2)You are 100% right
3)I agree but thats not what Ford is telling us or else why change the leasing terms?
4)Again nothing to say on that, my incentive is different from yours
5)Here the model Y lease is 740$ with $5250 down. The MME IS 1200$ with 8000$ down. Not even close
6)There are other options but when I was shown 900$/month vs 1400$ for the same car how would u react.
7)Which is why i dont want a Y but I expected the trrms to be fairly similar since the MSRP was similar. Not 600$ a month more.
Sponsored

 

Woeo

Well-Known Member
First Name
Woeo
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Threads
30
Messages
981
Reaction score
982
Location
Maryland
Vehicles
Fusion Energi
Country flag
Take an economics course.

Buyers set the price. Suppliers choose whether to offer/build the car for the buyers price. Suppliers are more likely to offer EV vehicles when they can collect the buyers price and the government’s credit.



I find interesting that for you its portrayed as such whereas for us its opposite. Its help motivate buyers to switch to EV's. Maybe this is the reason as Canadians we get screwed on the price.
[/QUO
 

First Edition

Banned
Banned
Joined
Dec 20, 2019
Threads
4
Messages
123
Reaction score
149
Location
USA
Vehicles
2021 Mach E - Failure To Launch Edition
Country flag
As bad as Tesla’s quality is (I’ve lived it) Ford doesn’t exactly have a good track record either, and Ford‘s quality has been dropping faster than Tesla‘s.

Quality is Job 1?

2021 Consumer Reports Reliability report:

The least reliable Ford (scoring 1 point out of a possible 100) is less reliable than the least reliable Tesla (5 points out of 100).

Ford Mustang Mach-E Mach-E Financing and RCL Leasing Program Announced %20Auto%20Reliability%20Business%20Press%20Release
 
Last edited:

kdryden99

Well-Known Member
First Name
Richard
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Threads
33
Messages
1,643
Reaction score
1,426
Location
Montreal Canada
Vehicles
Nissan Sentra Spec-V, Infinite Blue Mach E4X Prem
Country flag
Take an economics course.

Buyers set the price. Suppliers choose whether to build the car for the buyers price. Suppliers are more likely to offer EV vehicles when they can collect the buyers price and the government’s credit.
The incentive is only in our province/state. Its not national.
 

FredT

Well-Known Member
First Name
Fred
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Threads
5
Messages
391
Reaction score
320
Location
California
Vehicles
2003 Passat Wagon
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
I cant compare to the ID.4 because ill only get the pricing next year. But id like to try to understand. The 11000$ you put down why are you adding 3500$ to the existing 7500$?
The lease calculator on the VW site uses a down payment of $3500. In addition there is the $7500 fed tax credit that is used to reduce cap cost. So to try to get an equal starting point for Ford Options I used the same down payment plus $7500.
 


DBC

Well-Known Member
First Name
Don
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Threads
8
Messages
1,224
Reaction score
1,428
Location
San Diego
Vehicles
Volt ELR
Country flag
5)Here the model Y lease is 740$ with $5250 down. The MME IS 1200$ with 8000$ down. Not even close
Where I am not only is it "close", the MME is likely/actually less.

Here are the specifics:

1. Directly from Tesla's website: The Model Y lease for 3 years 10K miles is $479/month with $4500 down and including the $1500 Clean Rebate. So $479/month with $6000 down.

2. Directly from the Ford website: The options payment for the MME Premium AWD with Extended Battery with $13,500 down (that's Tesla's $6000 down plus the $7500 tax credit) and a three year term is $497.82.

That's less than $20. Take into account the X-plan discount, which you can get if you have a pulse, and the MME Options payment is likely less than the Model Y's $479.00.

Hope I never have to use you accountant! ? Kidding aside, I don't know why you think the payments are all that different.
 

kdryden99

Well-Known Member
First Name
Richard
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Threads
33
Messages
1,643
Reaction score
1,426
Location
Montreal Canada
Vehicles
Nissan Sentra Spec-V, Infinite Blue Mach E4X Prem
Country flag
The lease calculator on the VW site uses a down payment of $3500. In addition there is the $7500 fed tax credit that is used to reduce cap cost. So to try to get an equal starting point for Ford Options I used the same down payment plus $7500.
Ok understood. Maybe manufacturers are all calculating EV's this way vs ICE vehicles. If so it makes the transition to EV's much more difficult. I hope the pricing I get is as close.

Where I am not only is it "close", the MME is likely/actually less.

Here are the specifics:

1. Directly from Tesla's website: The Model Y lease for 3 years 10K miles is $479/month with $4500 down and including the $1500 Clean Rebate. So $479/month with $6000 down.

2. Directly from the Ford website: The options payment for the MME Premium AWD with Extended Battery with $13,500 down (that's Tesla's $6000 down plus the $7500 tax credit) and a three year term is $497.82.

That's less than $20. Take into account the X-plan discount, which you can get if you have a pulse, and the MME Options payment is likely less than the Model Y's $479.00.

Hope I never have to use you accountant! ? Kidding aside, I don't know why you think the payments are all that different.
Did you see my CANADIAN numbers. They are not close I just stated I get a MY lease for 850$ with 5250 down. The MME is 1200$ with 8000$ down. Im 'putting more down and paying450$ more per month for the MME. I'm in CANADA
 

kdryden99

Well-Known Member
First Name
Richard
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Threads
33
Messages
1,643
Reaction score
1,426
Location
Montreal Canada
Vehicles
Nissan Sentra Spec-V, Infinite Blue Mach E4X Prem
Country flag
See Below

Ford Mustang Mach-E Mach-E Financing and RCL Leasing Program Announced MY Lease.JPG


Ford Mustang Mach-E Mach-E Financing and RCL Leasing Program Announced MY Lease.JPG
I just realized the 8000$ down from my government is already included in the MME lease payment so it's even worse than I thought. That 1200$ lease payment is with 16000$ down
 

DBC

Well-Known Member
First Name
Don
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Threads
8
Messages
1,224
Reaction score
1,428
Location
San Diego
Vehicles
Volt ELR
Country flag
Can you explain why ford is setting the residual so much lower than a model y if you and they think MME is a better and reliable vehicle?

Their actions are saying the actual opposite, and they believe their vehicles will be worth way less compared to tesla 3 yrs from now. The comparison is due tot the fact they are both in same category and MME is trying to complete with them. I really want MME to do well and be better than Model Y, but it seems Ford themselves don't believe that.
Your error is in not recognizing that the tax credit lowers MSRP. Question: What is the difference between a vehicle with an MSRP of $47500 that comes with a $7500 tax credit and a vehicle with an MSRP of $40000? Answer: Nothing.

Process this point and everything becomes clear. Or to put it in terms of a residual, the residual needs to take into account the tax credit. Do that and the 3 year residual for a MME is about 55%, which is not low by any means.

Right now the payments for a three year ride in an MME is roughly the same as a three year ride in a Model Y. When the tax credits go away Ford will either drop MSRP by $7500 or throw $7500 of incentives at every deal. Either way and the payment for a three year ride in a MME will still be about the same as a three year ride in a Model Y.

That the residual as a percentage of MSRP has to take into account the tax credit is made clear by how it's treated in a lease rather than in Options. Add the tax credit to the residual and the residual starts approaching 60%. Does this mean Ford can't decide if the MME will really hold its value or won't hold its value?
 

kdryden99

Well-Known Member
First Name
Richard
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Threads
33
Messages
1,643
Reaction score
1,426
Location
Montreal Canada
Vehicles
Nissan Sentra Spec-V, Infinite Blue Mach E4X Prem
Country flag
Your error is in not recognizing that the tax credit lowers MSRP. Question: What is the difference between a vehicle with an MSRP of $47500 that comes with a $7500 tax credit and a vehicle with an MSRP of $40000? Answer: Nothing.

Process this point and everything becomes clear. Or to put it in terms of a residual, the residual needs to take into account the tax credit. Do that and the 3 year residual for a MME is about 55%, which is not low by any means.

Right now the payments for a three year ride in an MME is roughly the same as a three year ride in a Model Y. When the tax credits go away Ford will either drop MSRP by $7500 or throw $7500 of incentives at every deal. Either way and the payment for a three year ride in a MME will still be about the same as a three year ride in a Model Y.

That the residual as a percentage of MSRP has to take into account the tax credit is made clear by how it's treated in a lease rather than in Options. Add the tax credit to the residual and the residual starts approaching 60%. Does this mean Ford can't decide if the MME will really hold its value or won't hold its value?
By your calculations and by FredT's calculations there must be something very wrong on our side of the border cause i can get 2 model Y's for 1 MME according to Fords calculator and its not exagerating. The MME leaee with my EV credit is 1400$ a month vs 850 for an MY
 

DBC

Well-Known Member
First Name
Don
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Threads
8
Messages
1,224
Reaction score
1,428
Location
San Diego
Vehicles
Volt ELR
Country flag
I just realized the 8000$ down from my government is already included in the MME lease payment so it's even worse than I thought. That 1200$ lease payment is with 16000$ down
Other than the obvious issue that one quote includes sales tax and one doesn't, I can't comment since I don't understand how the rebates work nor do I understand what numbers reflect currency conversions and which don't. I do know that the Tesla lease number always includes available government rebates or incentives. The "savings" includes things like savings on gas. For example, in CA the Model Y lease number includes CA rebates but the MME Options number does not.

I can also tell you that in CA there is no significant difference in the cost of a three year ride in a MME as opposed to a Model Y, unless you opt for Tesla's FSD, in which case the Model Y is much more expensive.
 

kdryden99

Well-Known Member
First Name
Richard
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Threads
33
Messages
1,643
Reaction score
1,426
Location
Montreal Canada
Vehicles
Nissan Sentra Spec-V, Infinite Blue Mach E4X Prem
Country flag
Other than the obvious issue that one quote includes sales tax and one doesn't, I can't comment since I don't understand how the rebates work nor do I understand what numbers reflect currency conversions and which don't. I do know that the Tesla lease number always includes available government rebates or incentives. The "savings" includes things like savings on gas. For example, in CA the Model Y lease number includes CA rebates but the MME Options number does not.

I can also tell you that in CA there is no significant difference in the cost of a three year ride in a MME as opposed to a Model Y, unless you opt for Tesla's FSD, in which case the Model Y is much more expensive.
Theres no incentive for Tesla its base MSRP is too high and the taxes amounts to 120$ additional so i really dont understand wtf is going on. 500US$ should equate to under 800cdn.
 

DBC

Well-Known Member
First Name
Don
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Threads
8
Messages
1,224
Reaction score
1,428
Location
San Diego
Vehicles
Volt ELR
Country flag
By your calculations and by FredT's calculations there must be something very wrong on our side of the border cause i can get 2 model Y's for 1 MME according to Fords calculator and its not exagerating. The MME leaee with my EV credit is 1400$ a month vs 850 for an MY
Could be. I've given you the numbers for California. If you think these numbers are off tell me why.
 

kdryden99

Well-Known Member
First Name
Richard
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Threads
33
Messages
1,643
Reaction score
1,426
Location
Montreal Canada
Vehicles
Nissan Sentra Spec-V, Infinite Blue Mach E4X Prem
Country flag
Could be. I've given you the numbers for California. If you think these numbers are off tell me why.
no i dont your numbers make sense. Ford.ca doesnt
Sponsored

 
 




Top