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kdryden99

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Sorry I’m missing your point. The value of a vehicle is not determined by what you owe. When vehicles go to auction (which helps determine the market value) the auction houses don’t know or care about how much you owe or paid for the vehicle initially. The vehicle sells for what the market will bear regardless of anyone’s personal financing situation.
Maybe in U.S. its like that. Here there is 1 auction house Adessa. Used car dealers are not stupid. The market here is set mostly by private sellers and dealers. Not used car dealers.
 

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Maybe in U.S. its like that. Here there is 1 auction house Adessa. Used car dealers are not stupid. The market here is set mostly by private sellers and dealers. Not used car dealers.
I've had co-workers make me private offers on my used cars. I also have many options on where/how to sell them both privately or through dealers. You do not have a free market for car trades in Canada?
 

kdryden99

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I've had co-workers make me private offers on my used cars. I also have many options on where/how to sell them both privately or through dealers. You do not have a free market for car trades in Canada?
Of course we do but how do you want to sell urs at 45% when the Ford dealer has one at 38%
 

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The unknown part of the leasing equation is the incentive amount Ford will put into the lease. In Calif they’re putting $2500 into financing and Options. I’m assuming it will be the same for RCL. Unfortunately we have to pay sales tax on that incentive. It seems there would be more tax efficient solutions available. Whether that makes a big enough difference to make RCL competitive is TBD.

With the low volumes of Mach Es being produce, Ford really doesn‘t need to discount them much. Most buyers won’t even be aware of the “heads Ford wins, tails buyers lose” nature of the options provided by Ford as it relates to the use of the $7500 Federal Tax Credit.
 

kdryden99

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The unknown part of the leasing equation is the incentive amount Ford will put into the lease. In Calif they’re putting $2500 into financing and Options. I’m assuming it will be the same for RCL. Unfortunately we have to pay sales tax on that incentive. It seems there would be more tax efficient solutions available. Whether that makes a big enough difference to make RCL competitive is TBD.

With the low volumes of Mach Es being produce, Ford really doesn‘t need to discount them much. Most buyers won’t even be aware of the “heads Ford wins, tails buyers lose” nature of the options provided by Ford as it relates to the use of the $7500 Federal Tax Credit.
I doubt it will. 2500/48=52$month. not much there.
 

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Of course we do but how do you want to sell urs at 45% when the Ford dealer has one at 38%
I would sell mine at a price the market is willing to pay. If I choose to sell to a dealer, that price will be roughly $1,000-$1,750 or so below dealer sales because of buyer's risk, middleman fees/profit, warranty differences, and similar factors. If I sell privately, it will generally be $1,000-$2,500 above selling to a dealer. Just my observations on my non-premium cars like Accord, Fusion, Fiesta.

That's for my case, as someone who will own the vehicle outright at time of sale. No other party involved.

If a person had a vehicle to "sell" or trade while not the outright owner, then I'd guess this individual would generally end up accepting a lower resale value than I would, due to our different circumstances.

The buyer might be correct in assuming that this seller is carrying some financial baggage/burden and as a result, the seller is probably more deeply emotionally swayed in the transaction. Especially if the seller is upside down on the trade (financing is taking on more risk), or in a time crunch (like someone at the end of a lease).

Anyway, the above paragraph is where I can imagine a person with financing or who leased is going to get a lesser deal than a seller who owned their car... But that's about it. I still don't see the link between the number games, factors, market predictions, and whatever else are embedded into vehicle leasing, and the reality of the market that exists 2-4 years from now.

As a personal vehicle owner, I will always be more interested in overall cost of ownership than monthly payment amounts. But you stated you are leasing as a business expense. That can be a very different situation so your mileage may vary.
 
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hybrid2bev

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The unknown part of the leasing equation is the incentive amount Ford will put into the lease. In Calif they’re putting $2500 into financing and Options. I’m assuming it will be the same for RCL.
Right now the plan is for $0.00 RCL lease cash/rebates. But like all things that could change and incentives vary by market.
 

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Right now the plan is for $0.00 RCL lease cash/rebates. But like all things that could change and incentives vary by market.
Thanks for the info.
 

kdryden99

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I would sell mine at a price the market is willing to pay. If I choose to sell to a dealer, that price will be roughly $1,000-$1,750 or so below dealer sales because of buyer's risk, middleman fees/profit, warranty differences, and similar factors. If I sell privately, it will generally be $1,000-$2,500 above selling to a dealer. Just my observations on my non-premium cars like Accord, Fusion, Fiesta.

That's for my case, as someone who will own the vehicle outright at time of sale. No other party involved.

If a person had a vehicle to "sell" or trade while not the outright owner, then I'd guess this individual would generally end up accepting a lower resale value than I would, due to our different circumstances.

The buyer might be correct in assuming that this seller is carrying some financial baggage/burden and as a result, the seller is probably more deeply emotionally swayed in the transaction. Especially if the seller is upside down on the trade (financing is taking on more risk), or in a time crunch (like someone at the end of a lease).

Anyway, the above paragraph is where I can imagine a person with financing or who leased is going to get a lesser deal than a seller who owned their car... But that's about it. I still don't see the link between the number games, factors, market predictions, and whatever else are embedded into vehicle leasing, and the reality of the market that exists 2-4 years from now.

As a personal vehicle owner, I will always be more interested in overall cost of ownership than monthly payment amounts. But you stated you are leasing as a business expense. That can be a very different situation so your mileage may vary.
I understand what you are saying but you have to also realize I was able to justify switching to electric because i was almost breaking even using my gas car (Nissan Rogue) gas+monthly payment vs the MME. I was willing to even pay 100$ more for the electric. But with the lease price as it is what incentive do i have to switch. What incentive does anybody have to switch. The guy paying 500$/month for his Lexus RX wont go for the MME when its so much more. It doesnt make sense. You are trying to bring in clients, leasing is the way to attract clients to switch but not at that price.
On top of it where I live (quebec) they just put in the Cali 2035 law. So there was more incentive for me to switch. But at that price i might have no choice but wait or go to the competition.
 

kdryden99

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You also said the market decides the price, but Ford doesnt believe that. They told everyone this care will be worth 35%. If you say the market will be determined by the sellers why is Ford telling us in 4yrs it will be worth 35%. Because theyre comparing with Nissan Leaf? Hyundai Ioniq? I didnt think i was buying/leasing that kind of car. Everything theyve been telling us was that it was a Tesla killer. So am i looking at 60k$ car that is competing with 35k$ cars? Really
 

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I appreciate all the insight from @hybrid2bev, I really do. And of course he/she isn’t the ones making the decisions, just passing it along.

But at the end of the day the options and RCL are really bad deals. We can spin it anyway you want.
 

kdryden99

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I've been on this Forum telling ppl not to compare the car to a Model 3, its not its competitor, you have to compare with the Y. Was I wrong? Is this car going to be worth the same price as a 3 in 4 years?
 

kdryden99

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@hybrid2bev its not against you. This morning i woke up feeling really bad for the car sales people because they've been dealt a really bad hand here and I realize it wont be their fault. When uninformed customers are shown these numbers theyre going to give the sales ppl really bad looks.
 
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I appreciate all the insight from @hybrid2bev, I really do. And of course he/she isn’t the ones making the decisions, just passing it along.

But at the end of the day the options and RCL are really bad deals. We can spin it anyway you want.
Thanks. I try not to chime in unless I feel that there is incomplete or inaccurate information on here. Everyone has a right to their opinion and should freely share it so the Mach-E teams can see what customers are thinking.
@kdryden99 too!! Let your opinions be known.
 

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You also said the market decides the price, but Ford doesnt believe that. They told everyone this care will be worth 35%. If you say the market will be determined by the sellers why is Ford telling us in 4yrs it will be worth 35%. Because theyre comparing with Nissan Leaf? Hyundai Ioniq? I didnt think i was buying/leasing that kind of car. Everything theyve been telling us was that it was a Tesla killer. So am i looking at 60k$ car that is competing with 35k$ cars? Really
I realize that I have been beating the horse to death and he is almost dead:

For the Premium LR AWD, the Option Plan, using the Federal Tax credit of $7,500 as a down payment has a monthly charge of $748.

The MSRP, or selling price is $55,800. As the option plan is a sale and not a lease, the sales tax due where I live, 8.625% is an additional $4812. I realize that some states, like New Jersey, waive the sales tax on an EV, but NY like most states do not.

That $4,812 divided by 36 is an additional $133 a month, bring the actual monthly payment to $881!

Considering that the Model Y with no money down is $633 plus tax of $55 a month, totals $688.

Does paying $200 a month more for the MME make sense to anyone? It surely does not to me.

PS: In those states that waive the sales tax on an EV, the difference is $115 ($748 vs. $633).
 



 









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