New pigtails for Webasto-made portable EVSE??

[GrumblesTheDog]

Long story short, my mother-in-law is getting a Lyriq and I have been stalking their forums much like I stalked these so many years ago to figure out when I'd get my car. Much to my surprise, someone posted this link here to the Cadillac parts catalog, which appears to be an expanded range of EVSE pigtails. Two are pretty interesting for travel (14-30, and TT-30 which is really useful for the campground crew in the absence of 14-50 hookups.)

This is interesting, because I think it's widely accepted/known that GM ALSO uses a Webasto-manufactured EVSE as their dual-level charge cable included with the Bolt EUV. From what I can see in the user manual, the same EVSE is included with the Lyriq. The outer casing is different from the Webasto Go/Ford mobile charger (FMC), so who knows if that means the underlying hardware or firmware has changed. Still, part of me thinks this is not a super high-volume product, so why keep different parts, firmware, etc for something that otherwise gets the job done?

I was super curious if their pigtails would fit the FMC...so I bought one!

It's a 14-30 alright. Took this picture if anyone wanted to see the part numbers.

GM branding, and current rating

The connector end. Top is 14-30, bottom is the 5-15 120V plug that came with the FMC. Looks identical to me, and indeed, it plugs into the FMC perfectly:

Now to try it! I was reasonably confident this wouldn't cook my car, though the thought did cross my mind. I don't actually have a 14-30 in my house, since the electrical is a bit on the older side (ie my dryer is on a 10-30 socket) so I picked up a cheap passthrough 14-50P to 14-30R adapter. (Electrically inclined people, please correct me, but I think this should be fine since the 14-30 would be expected to draw well under the rated current for a properly wired 14-50, and the prongs are identical otherwise, ie 2x hot, neutral, and ground?)

I plugged the adapter into my exterior 14-50, and then the 14-30/FMC combo, and the moment of truth:

(sad trombone noise)

Red LED. Bummer. Preliminarily, it seems like the FMC is not compatible with these expanded pigtails...but did GM really pay for a different model of EVSE rather than just reusing the Webasto Go guts in a different casing? I don't have a Bolt EUV charger to try, but it's interesting to me that on the Cadillac parts webpage there's a blurb about it working with any GM/Cadillac EVSE. If it's not compatible with the FMC, then, I wonder if there's a way to make it work together? (I'm not sure how far I'll get investigating this - I don't see any screws at all on the FMC, and I don't feel like sawing open my charging cable or a pigtail to likely find out there's nothing really I can do with it.)

One final interesting thing: while I was scouring the Internet for ANYTHING about the Webasto Go or its OEM counterparts, I found a YouTube interview (the channel for Miss GoElectric) with one of the higher-ups at Webasto. While he's talking about their mobile EVSE mounted on the wall next to him out of frame, behind him is a massive glass display case with...an assortment of pigtails in both NEMA and international standards.

How intriguing...

Anyone have any other clever ideas about ways to make this thing work? I have a multimeter and enough electrical knowledge to be dangerous.

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[Mach-Lee]

Bummer. First thing I would do though is check if your outlet and adapter are wired correctly. 14-50 to 14-30 should be wired straight through, but make sure none of the prongs are connected to each other internally, and verify that you didn't get a bad adapter with an open connection.

Did you do the electrical checks on your 14-50 outlet to verify it's wired correctly and works with the 14-50 plug?

Does the 120V plug from the bundle work?

Last time I looked at it, I figured out there was a 30k thermistor wired between two pins, and some sort of diode setup that reads a different voltage in the reverse direction for the different plugs. It's possible the Ford EVSE was only programmed for those two plugs.

EDIT: See #53 and #58 here for measurements. Measure resistance and diode voltage both forwards and backwards: https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...-charger-shows-yellow-light.22819/post-533690

But yes, Webasto makes that whole slew of plug adapters and I don't understand why Ford doesn't sell them all like Tesla does. I would probably buy a 14-30 adapter since that's also extremely common, and maybe the TT-30.

 

[SWO]

Is the GM EVSE adjustable current? What is it's maximum current rating?

Won't the Mach-E charger draw more amperage than a 30A circuit is rated for? (I notice the pigtail says 24A)

That said, I would love to have some more adapters and it's a shame Ford doesn't make them available, particularly since the F150 uses a TT30 IIRC?

 

[Mach-Lee]

Is the GM EVSE adjustable current? What is it's maximum current rating?

Won't the Mach-E charger draw more amperage than a 30A circuit is rated for? (I notice the pigtail says 24A)

That said, I would love to have some more adapters and it's a shame Ford doesn't make them available, particularly since the F150 uses a TT30 IIRC?

GM calls it the dual-level charge cord, but it's probably got the same crappy Webasto guts ours has. When you put the 30A plug on, it should automatically set the EVSE to 24A when it reads the resistor values in the plug head. F150 uses a twist lock L14-30 outlet (120/240V), not TT-30.

 

[i8iridium]

That sucks it didn't work, cause I probably would have bought ALL the adapters instead of carrying around my Tesla kit. lol

 

[Maquis]

The FMC has a temp sensor in the plug. It’s likely that those pigtails don’t.

Other issues:
No way to dial down the FMC, so the 14-30 would be overloaded.

The TT-30 is useless. Fords will not charge over 12A on 120V, so you might as well just use the 5-15.

 

[i8iridium]

The FMC has a temp sensor in the plug. It’s likely that those pigtails don’t.

Other issues:
No way to dial down the FMC, so the 14-30 would be overloaded.

The TT-30 is useless. Fords will not charge over 12A on 120V, so you might as well just use the 5-15.

I think what OP was getting at was the EVSE's are both made by the same company, so he was hoping that they "might" have the same internals and be compatible. There's just been no offical way to test it until he found the GM-branded one using the same plug adapter style.

 

[Maquis]

I think what OP was getting at was the EVSE's are both made by the same company, so he was hoping that they "might" have the same internals and be compatible. There's just been no offical way to test it until he found the GM-branded one using the same plug adapter style.

Yep….just adding my observations.

 

[GrumblesTheDog]

Bummer. First thing I would do though is check if your outlet and adapter are wired correctly. 14-50 to 14-30 should be wired straight through, but make sure none of the prongs are connected to each other internally, and verify that you didn't get a bad adapter with an open connection.

Did you do the electrical checks on your 14-50 outlet to verify it's wired correctly and works with the 14-50 plug?

Does the 120V plug from the bundle work?

Last time I looked at it, I figured out there was a 30k thermistor wired between two pins, and some sort of diode setup that reads a different voltage in the reverse direction for the different plugs. It's possible the Ford EVSE was only programmed for those two plugs.

EDIT: See #53 and #58 here for measurements. Measure resistance and diode voltage both forwards and backwards: https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...-charger-shows-yellow-light.22819/post-533690

But yes, Webasto makes that whole slew of plug adapters and I don't understand why Ford doesn't sell them all like Tesla does. I would probably buy a 14-30 adapter since that's also extremely common, and maybe the TT-30.

Thanks for these suggestions - yes, the adapter appears to be wired correctly; everything is indeed connected straight through without any unexpected connections when I checked continuity across plugs/prongs. The 120V pigtail works fine with the FMC; I will recheck the 14-50 pigtail but my outlet works fine with my current EVSE (GrizzlE) plugged into it and it charges my car no problem.

Resistance seems to be the same as the other adapters as you pointed out in your thread

Voltages across the diode appear to be about the same as what you found on your 240V adapter (0.54V forward, 1.34V reverse)

 

[Mach-Lee]

Thanks for these suggestions - yes, the adapter appears to be wired correctly; everything is indeed connected straight through without any unexpected connections when I checked continuity across plugs/prongs. The 120V pigtail works fine with the FMC; I will recheck the 14-50 pigtail but my outlet works fine with my current EVSE (GrizzlE) plugged into it and it charges my car no problem.

Resistance seems to be the same as the other adapters as you pointed out in your thread

Voltages across the diode appear to be about the same as what you found on your 240V adapter (0.54V forward, 1.34V reverse)

Yeah, that's basically identical to my 14-50 plug, so it should work unless there's something digital involved.

Check the continuity through the plug adapter to the prongs, check your outlet voltage readings, and verify the Ford 14-50 adapter works with it.

 

[SWO]

GM calls it the dual-level charge cord, but it's probably got the same crappy Webasto guts ours has. When you put the 30A plug on, it should automatically set the EVSE to 24A when it reads the resistor values in the plug head. F150 uses a twist lock L14-30 outlet (120/240V), not TT-30.

I just looked at the Webasto Go literature, and you're correct that it apparently has plug-specific amperage limits, which is a nice feature.

The new charger also includes a wealth of standard safety features, such as grid plug temperature monitoring, plug-specific electrical current limitations, automatic adapter detection, and built-in temperature sensing.

 

[SWO]

Long story short, my mother-in-law is getting a Lyriq and I have been stalking their forums much like I stalked these so many years ago to figure out when I'd get my car. Much to my surprise, someone posted this link here to the Cadillac parts catalog, which appears to be an expanded range of EVSE pigtails. Two are pretty interesting for travel (14-30, and TT-30 which is really useful for the campground crew in the absence of 14-50 hookups.)

This is interesting, because I think it's widely accepted/known that GM ALSO uses a Webasto-manufactured EVSE as their dual-level charge cable included with the Bolt EUV. From what I can see in the user manual, the same EVSE is included with the Lyriq. The outer casing is different from the Webasto Go/Ford mobile charger (FMC), so who knows if that means the underlying hardware or firmware has changed. Still, part of me thinks this is not a super high-volume product, so why keep different parts, firmware, etc for something that otherwise gets the job done?

I was super curious if their pigtails would fit the FMC...so I bought one!

It's a 14-30 alright. Took this picture if anyone wanted to see the part numbers.

GM branding, and current rating

The connector end. Top is 14-30, bottom is the 5-15 120V plug that came with the FMC. Looks identical to me, and indeed, it plugs into the FMC perfectly:

Now to try it! I was reasonably confident this wouldn't cook my car, though the thought did cross my mind. I don't actually have a 14-30 in my house, since the electrical is a bit on the older side (ie my dryer is on a 10-30 socket) so I picked up a cheap passthrough 14-50P to 14-30R adapter. (Electrically inclined people, please correct me, but I think this should be fine since the 14-30 would be expected to draw well under the rated current for a properly wired 14-50, and the prongs are identical otherwise, ie 2x hot, neutral, and ground?)

I plugged the adapter into my exterior 14-50, and then the 14-30/FMC combo, and the moment of truth:

(sad trombone noise)

Red LED. Bummer. Preliminarily, it seems like the FMC is not compatible with these expanded pigtails...but did GM really pay for a different model of EVSE rather than just reusing the Webasto Go guts in a different casing? I don't have a Bolt EUV charger to try, but it's interesting to me that on the Cadillac parts webpage there's a blurb about it working with any GM/Cadillac EVSE. If it's not compatible with the FMC, then, I wonder if there's a way to make it work together? (I'm not sure how far I'll get investigating this - I don't see any screws at all on the FMC, and I don't feel like sawing open my charging cable or a pigtail to likely find out there's nothing really I can do with it.)

One final interesting thing: while I was scouring the Internet for ANYTHING about the Webasto Go or its OEM counterparts, I found a YouTube interview (the channel for Miss GoElectric) with one of the higher-ups at Webasto. While he's talking about their mobile EVSE mounted on the wall next to him out of frame, behind him is a massive glass display case with...an assortment of pigtails in both NEMA and international standards.

How intriguing...

Anyone have any other clever ideas about ways to make this thing work? I have a multimeter and enough electrical knowledge to be dangerous.

Any update on this by chance? I'm not seeing why it wouldn't work.

 

[HuntingPudel]

Any update on this by chance? I'm not seeing why it wouldn't work.

Ford probably bought a depopulated version that doesn’t have some amperage control in it. The other option is that Ford’s version has software in it that doesn’t support more than two modes (110V 12A and 220v 32A). I am going with the first one since it probably would have reduced the cost by a few cents per unit. ?‍?

 

[GrumblesTheDog]

Any update on this by chance? I'm not seeing why it wouldn't work.

No luck, unfortunately. I finished the rest of @Mach-Lee's troubleshooting suggestions. My 14-50 outlet is good, FMC works fine with the 14-50 pigtail so doesn't seem like a configuration error on my end. It really seems like they shared plug fitments etc but the underlying hardware or firmware is different enough that only the 5-15 and 14-50 pigtails are recognized by the FMC.

Now I wonder if any of the newer FMCs shipped with the current model year Ford EVs would work this this, or even just the actual OEM Webasto Go?

 

[Lynsey]

I had the same issue when I went to visit my parents. They only have a 10-30 for their dryer. I ended up borrowing their neighbors Tesla charger (he bought the 10-30 adapter) and I used my mini TeslaTap. It worked perfectly. I ended up buying the Tesla charger and the 10-30 adapter. I hardly ever use the mobile charger anyway, so I'm just gonna keep that in the car and use the Tesla Tap. Tesla has like every kind of adapter you need. https://shop.tesla.com/product/gen-2-nema-adapters

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