Edmunds Massive Charging Comparison - MME is second to last.

[Atxsw]

The fast charging is a bit slow, one thing is most of the time I see other cars (except the 800v ones) only pulling a bit more than my SR (I assume due to charger limitations). I am going to assume ford has learned from this and their 2nd version will be 800v and be able to handle a lot higher fast charging speed.

Overall this hasnt really mattered much to me since I only go on a few road trips per year, it does add about 1hr to longer trips though, but not really the end of the world since it usually is just enough time to get food/restroom etc.

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[Shayne]

The fast charging is a bit slow, one thing is most of the time I see other cars (except the 800v ones) only pulling a bit more than my SR (I assume due to charger limitations). I am going to assume ford has learned from this and their 2nd version will be 800v and be able to handle a lot higher fast charging speed.

Overall this hasnt really mattered much to me since I only go on a few road trips per year, it does add about 1hr to longer trips though, but not really the end of the world since it usually is just enough time to get food/restroom etc.

I am also only using DCFC on trips which is a handful of times a year. the 50 KW chargers were a bit brutal but that is changing.

I bought mine with Ford specifying they go from 10 to 80% in 45 minutes which was an average of 0.7 x 88 KW / 0.75 hr = 82 KW charging. I have found that they meet or exceed this in my limited charging at DCFC when the chargers are not 50 KW chargers and they are working. The Tesla magic dock averaged 110 KW for my short test which seems to imply not only the car but the chargers can get better.

I have found it is best to figure out what you need to get to the next designation and not charge to 80% every time. At the beginning my last charge before getting home I use to sit there and charge to 80% now I know 60% does the job. That is the real time saver.

 

[Hoovertac]

Thanks for posting. Looks like I’m 35 &36.
Nice thing is charging time isn’t much of an issue since I charge at home. But I can see how this is relevant for long distance drivers.
Why so slow? Is ford being conservative? Can this eventually be addressed by OTA or upgrades?

 

[MinM]

They did not bother test the Nissan Leaf, Nissan Ariya, Toyota bZ4X, Subaru Solterra, Lexus RZ, Hyundai Kona, Kia Niro, Volvo C40, or or Volvo XC40. I am positive 5 of those cars will be worse.

Some of the mentioned cars are older cars of better yet older platforms. The ariya for example, brand new car = old platform = Bigger Leaf with a new infotainment system. Toyota is miles behind in the EV platforms because they dont invest a lot in it, they still believe in hybrid for the short term and long therm H2.



Mustang MME 21 22 and 23 are using NMC Battery, high output slow max charging speed while competition is already on LFP high charge speeds but slower output then NMC.

In my company many have a standard P2 or standard KIA EV6, almost same specs but in a drag race, I beat them all only the dual motor Tesla's beat me. But atDC charging station in the 0% - 10 % range they can charge at 150 to 200kWh, me at 110 ..... and degrading with the higer battery % buts that normal. But at 80% and above LFP is slower at charging DC but who does that?
P2 at 80% above it drops to 11kWh and stays there untill 100%

While the MME even at 90% or above is at 22kWh.

Ford has to get rid of the NMC battery and update towards LFP not only for charge speeds but the battery is cheaper.

 

[MinM]

Thanks for posting. Looks like I’m 35 &36.
Nice thing is charging time isn’t much of an issue since I charge at home. But I can see how this is relevant for long distance drivers.
Why so slow? Is ford being conservative? Can this eventually be addressed by OTA or upgrades?

Its slow because of the NMC battery, Ford is at the max of DC input for this battery so an upgrade is not going to change a lot. That's the downside of NMC, the upside is a better performing car, the output is higher but can only be maintained for a period that is why a RWD SR doesn't have a turtle mode while the AWD/GT can only goes max for about 5 sec.

The single motor version doesn't go near the full output of the NMC battery so no need for the turtle mode, while the AWD/GT version reach the full output of NMC.

I rather see LFP battery with stronger electro motor/s = faster charging speed(DC), same acceleration and NO TURTLE MODE!

 

[MinM]

The fast charging is a bit slow, one thing is most of the time I see other cars (except the 800v ones) only pulling a bit more than my SR (I assume due to charger limitations). I am going to assume ford has learned from this and their 2nd version will be 800v and be able to handle a lot higher fast charging speed.

Overall this hasnt really mattered much to me since I only go on a few road trips per year, it does add about 1hr to longer trips though, but not really the end of the world since it usually is just enough time to get food/restroom etc.

800V inverter is going to do s*it in the current MME.
Ford needs to upgrade to LFP and a stronger motor, thats all they need to do to get level with the competition.

Cheaper battery
Faster charge times DC = up to 250kWh
Bye Bye turtle mode for AWD/GT

To get level in the EU they also need to massively update their software!
We dont have Youtube yet, while Tesla owners are watching Netflix on their screens while charging. little things that makes charging more bearable! Even at this slow speeds

 

[Atxsw]

Some of the mentioned cars are older cars of better yet older platforms. The ariya for example, brand new car = old platform = Bigger Leaf with a new infotainment system. Toyota is miles behind in the EV platforms because they dont invest a lot in it, they still believe in hybrid for the short term and long therm H2.



Mustang MME 21 22 and 23 are using NMC Battery, high output slow max charging speed while competition is already on LFP high charge speeds but slower output then NMC.

In my company many have a standard P2 or standard KIA EV6, almost same specs but in a drag race, I beat them all only the dual motor Tesla's beat me. But atDC charging station in the 0% - 10 % range they can charge at 150 to 200kWh, me at 110 ..... and degrading with the higer battery % buts that normal. But at 80% and above LFP is slower at charging DC but who does that?
P2 at 80% above it drops to 11kWh and stays there untill 100%

While the MME even at 90% or above is at 22kWh.

Ford has to get rid of the NMC battery and update towards LFP not only for charge speeds but the battery is cheaper.

fyi, EV6 have the same battery chemistry as the ford, the difference is its an 800v architecture which means it can charge 2x the wattage at the same current.

That I have to assume the ev6 doesnt have the issues I have heard about temp sensor placement in the mache battery packs.

 

[MinM]

fyi, EV6 have the same battery chemistry as the ford, the difference is its an 800v architecture which means it can charge 2x the wattage at the same current.

That I have to assume the ev6 doesnt have the issues I have heard about temp sensor placement in the mache battery packs.

Now we know why in the EU this car has a delivery time of almost 2 years
2 NMC batteries in series + 800V inverter, well atleast they dont have a turtle mode on there AWD and GT version.

But my suggestion is better and coming to the MME.
LFP battery announced = more range, faster charging, cheaper with a downside for cold weather but will take that for granted, coldest weather in my country is like -5 celcius at short periodes.

 

[ChehRob]

If charging is reliable, I (and maybe most of us) will schedule morning chores to that charging time. I read at least 3 newspapers a day and a few blogs, answer emails. Normally most of that when I first get up. On road trips I shall tell dear wife talk while we're in the car. At breakfast and lunch I shall read while the car charges. Also I shall limit myself to 500 miles a day for the most part. It would be nice to go from 20-80% in less than half an hour but not a major inconvenience.

 

[voxel]

800V inverter is going to do s*it in the current MME.
Ford needs to upgrade to LFP and a stronger motor, thats all they need to do to get level with the competition.

Cheaper battery
Faster charge times DC = up to 250kWh
Bye Bye turtle mode for AWD/GT

To get level in the EU they also need to massively update their software!
We dont have Youtube yet, while Tesla owners are watching Netflix on their screens while charging. little things that makes charging more bearable! Even at this slow speeds

LFP batteries are actually worse for performance EVs. Lower voltage, higher IR, etc.

Performance EVs will continue to use NCA/NMC cells.
Mass market will use LFP or the new Sodium-ion batteries (ha! they shipped before the fake solid state batteries)

 

[MinM]

LFP batteries are actually worse for performance EVs. Lower voltage, higher IR, etc.

Performance EVs will continue to use NCA/NMC cells.
Mass market will use LFP or the new Sodium-ion batteries (ha! they shipped before the fake solid state batteries)

I'm sorry to be the critical person on here, but you can hardly call a MME in the EV world a performance EV.

It's a mid-class luxurious EV, nothing wrong with that, but I see a lot of EVs outperforming a MME even with LFP chemistry.

For me it's the best looking EV, It has not the best infotainment but not the worst.

 

[voxel]

I'm sorry to be the critical person on here, but you can hardly call a MME in the EV world a performance EV.

It's a mid-class luxurious EV, nothing wrong with that, but I see a lot of EVs outperforming a MME even with LFP chemistry.

For me it's the best looking EV, It has not the best infotainment but not the worst.

Name them. I owned a 22 Tesla Model 3 RWD. Fun car... slow as sh*t. 0 to 60 in 6 seconds. Crazy efficient for sure but in 2022 it was $50K with the white interior and 19" wheels. I was glad I dumped it before Elon cut prices (now you can buy the same config for $30K after tax credit).

All my Mach-Es were faster except the RWD Standard Range.

 

[Mirak]

Even if the Mach E was #1 in charge speed, I still wouldn't care. That's not an ability I have much use for. On long road trips when mid-voyage charging is necessary, I want a break from driving anyway. The ability to fully recharge in (for example) 20 minutes is, frankly, a nuisance. That's still not gas-pump fast but is just long enough to require me to stay with the car until finished since I'll be expected to move away for the next person. It's actually better if the charge takes twice as long, at 40 minutes, because that makes leaving the car to use a washroom, fetch a coffee, or just walk around a sensible use of the waiting time.

It's my opinion that we need to stop expecting car life with EVs to be the same as ICEs. Going to the well to fetch a bucket of gas is obsolete. The future is arriving at your destination, plugging in, and re-charging during the hours you're not driving. (There needs to be chargers everywhere.) For long trips when re-charging mid-voyage is needed, the future is rest and entertainment areas, beyond simple coffee & diesel truck-stops, where driving breaks are had while leaving the car parked to re-charge.

Okaaaay. Suffice it to say that most people don't want to stop for 45 minutes every 2-3 hours of a road trip.

"The future" is not finding ways to fill the time... it is better batteries which charge faster. The future you envision suffers from a distinct lack of innovation. You are limiting your prognostication to the limitations of current battery tech, which is a bit silly.

 

[Mirak]

Mustang MME 21 22 and 23 are using NMC Battery, high output slow max charging speed while competition is already on LFP high charge speeds but slower output then NMC.
...
Ford has to get rid of the NMC battery and update towards LFP not only for charge speeds but the battery is cheaper.

LFP generally has slower charging speed than NMC. I think that correction basically negates your point. Yes, LFP could be a bit cheaper... cost savings that don't appear to be being passed along to the consumer. Yes, LFP supposedly has better lifespan... but this hasn't been a material concern for NMC.

Basically, the difference between LFP and NMC is largely immaterial, no pun intended.

 

[Jimrpa]

Edmunds did a comprehensive charging speed test on dozens of EVs in the US market.

Out of 43 tested vehicles the MME 4X and GTPE came in #40 and #41, respectively. Only the Bolt EV and EUV were slower to add miles.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-charging.html

Charging “adds” electrons, not miles ?

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