Tesla Model Y vs Mustang Mach-E (my thoughts)

[DennisD]

It's personal observation. If it was a study I would have cited it. I don't know any 20-30yo that wants old school buttons to come back. Likewise I don't know anyone from a younger generation that wants to give up their cell phone for a land line or flip phone. When I was a kid I remember people saying computers wouldn't be commonplace except in business. I feel you're just denying the inevitable, but I could be wrong.

As for cost, I don't think you need a study to examine the price of a screen vs a plastic button. Not to mention all the developers that you have to employ to maintain the software. Old cars with buttons never got updates or UI changes. Going digital has nothing to do with saving money, not even close.

Just like you have your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. Come back in 10 years and let me know how it played out.

Actually, having a button/knob is most likely more costly. The knob on the MME would have been less expensive if they left that out and just used the touchscreen. I doubt that a knob that was used in the past (technology wise) will ever come back. They will be integrated and knobs seem to be making somewhat of a comeback lately.

Like I have said before, even though people don't like change they do however like simplicity.

Once digital watches came out I thought that would be the end of the hand sweep dial's. The digital watches have been out for decades (more than 10 years) and they (hand sweep dials) don't seem to be going away anytime too soon.

The example of buttons used for gamers can be cited via the hand held controller for most games. I think all of the "good" ones use knobs and buttons. And I don't think Grandpa and Grandma are the gamers. ?

Sponsored

 

[DevSecOps]

Actually, having a button/knob is most likely more costly. The knob on the MME would have been less expensive if they left that out and just used the touchscreen. I doubt that a knob that was used in the past (technology wise) will ever come back. They will be integrated and knobs seem to be making somewhat of a comeback lately.

Like I have said before, even though people don't like change they do however like simplicity.

Once digital watches came out I thought that would be the end of the hand sweep dial's. The digital watches have been out for decades (more than 10 years) and they (hand sweep dials) don't seem to be going away anytime too soon.

The example of buttons used for gamers can be cited via the hand held controller for most games. I think all of the "good" ones use knobs and buttons. And I don't think Grandpa and Grandma are the gamers. ?

Your comparisons are quite honestly ridiculous. Of course a knob on top of a screen is going to cost more. That's not what I said at all.

You think more analog watches are sold than Fitbit, Apple watches, Google watches and Samsung watches? I have a strong feeling that's incorrect.

I'm an avid gamer and attend many conventions. Gaming is absolutely going more digital. Legacy gaming companies like Blizzard never had mobile games. Their last few major releases have been exclusively mobile.

 

[ferrin]

It's personal observation. If it was a study I would have cited it. I don't know any 20-30yo that wants old school buttons to come back. Likewise I don't know anyone from a younger generation that wants to give up their cell phone for a land line or flip phone. When I was a kid I remember people saying computers wouldn't be commonplace except in business. I feel you're just denying the inevitable, but I could be wrong.

As for cost, I don't think you need a study to examine the price of a screen vs a plastic button. Not to mention all the developers that you have to employ to maintain the software. Old cars with buttons never got updates or UI changes. Going digital has nothing to do with saving money, not even close.

Just like you have your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. Come back in 10 years and let me know how it played out.

My 17 year old thinks touchscreens for important car controls are bad. She was just talking yesterday about how easy it is on her older Subaru to find the button she's looking for just by feel.

 

[superdave80]

I switched to one pedal on day one and I’ll never go back. Curious to understand how many people hold your view here

Well, with a vehicle that has 1pd and 2pd driving, guess what? You won't have to. Aren't you glad the manufacturer put in both options so you could (gasp) choose which you like better?

 

[ferrin]

Your comparisons are quite honestly ridiculous. Of course a knob on top of a screen is going to cost more. That's not what I said at all.

You think more analog watches are sold than Fitbit, Apple watches, Google watches and Samsung watches? I have a strong feeling that's incorrect.

I'm an avid gamer and attend many conventions. Gaming is absolutely going more digital. Legacy gaming companies like Blizzard never had mobile games. Their last few major releases have been exclusively mobile.

Comparing watch choices to this kind of thing is ridiculous. A smart watch is an entirely different type of product. It's not like cars didn't have audio systems, wipers, headlights, and climate control before those kinds of things were enabled by the presence of a touch screen. Putting the controls for all of those things on a screen rather than buttons makes it necessary to take your eyes off the road to change them, rather than being able to feel the button and do it by memory.

Smart watches, cell phones, and video games aren't meant to be used while driving cars. Touchscreens are great in general and are far more versatile than physical buttons, except for applications where you shouldn't be looking at it when you're trying to use it.

 

[DennisD]

Your comparisons are quite honestly ridiculous. Of course a knob on top of a screen is going to cost more. That's not what I said at all.

You think more analog watches are sold than Fitbit, Apple watches, Google watches and Samsung watches? I have a strong feeling that's incorrect.

I'm an avid gamer and attend many conventions. Gaming is absolutely going more digital. Legacy gaming companies like Blizzard never had mobile games. Their last few major releases have been exclusively mobile.

Gaming is totally digital. Please reference where I said it wasn't?

I was talking about the controllers i.e. knobs and buttons. (like the controllers for cars)
https://www.pcgamer.com/best-controller-for-pc-gaming/

And as far as sweep dials, you haven't a clue. I never said they sold more, I said they still are desired. ?

https://www.jomashop.com/rolex-cosm...AwxVRljawIH3j2KkJhHnio52bE1eI3ZfBBcDsoL7FCad4

You may want to do a little more research before giving opinions. ?

 

[superdave80]

It's obviously a polarizing subject.

This doesn't really have anything to do with 1pd vs. 2pd being better, worse, the same, etc.

This thread is evident that many people don't think there's a logical reason to change a vehicle form the way it's been since they were 16. They are entitled to think that way. I said previously that I wish more companies would try different things an

But they can change AND keep the old system, and then the user can decide what they like best. That was the main point I was making, that it's just seems that they are blindly removing tried and true systems, for no reason. Again, it would take almost zero time/effort to keep 2pd in an EV that already has both pedals.

 

[superdave80]

As for cost, I don't think you need a study to examine the price of a screen vs a plastic button. Not to mention all the developers that you have to employ to maintain the software. Old cars with buttons never got updates or UI changes. Going digital has nothing to do with saving money, not even close.

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up cost of touchscreen vs. cost of buttons (which is more than just a piece of plastic). There is already a touchscreen (nobody is saying to get rid of them), so it's really cost of buttons vs. cost of... nothing. Guess which one is more expensive?

 

[superdave80]

A Tesla driver would laugh at the ginormous ford key.

Given that they would never see it (it sits in a pocket/drawer/purse 99.9% of it's life), why would you care if it's 'ginormous'. Also, I chose not to laugh at the lady who needed to charge her phone in my Mach-E to start her Tesla.

 

[Indy Mike]

Just got home from a trip in Colorado, where we rented a Tesla Y for a week. We've been driving our Mach-E for 18 months now, winter and summer, and I wanted to leave my thoughts on the contrasts between the two similar vehicles.

The Tesla sucks. Really.

Yes, it was a rental, and yes there are some quantitative things to prefer about it, but as an actual vehicle to drive around and go places and do things? It's awful.

The key. There is no way to unlock the doors without a) your phone or b) tapping the key (which is a hotel-room style keycard) on a specific spot on the driver's door. That only unlocks the driver's door. To unlock other doors, you have to use the touchscreen. Locking the car is the same way. Tap the key on that same specific spot. The car also doesn't always detect the key inside, so about 50% of the time, I had to tap the same key on a specific spot on the center console while holding the brake pedal to "start." That's a lot of wallet movement in and out of my pocket, something I usually try to minimize.

The wipers. Couldn't figure out how to use them. I could make the window washer go, which would trigger the wipers, but otherwise they were stuck on automatic. I'm sure there's a setting in the touchscreen somewhere. One day we had a healthy layer of frost on the windshield and the wipers went into insanity overdrive mode for about eight minutes.

The headlights (and fog lights). Automatic only. Couldn't turn them on or off.

Turn signals. About 50% of the time, they turned off too soon or stayed on too long. There's no clicking in the stalk, you just kind of wiggle it up or down.

The shifter. Just a stalk on the right side of the wheel. Doesn't really move. Push up for R, push down for D. Click the button on the end in for P. Functional, but seems needlessly different with no obvious upside.

The wheel. To adjust the steering wheel, you need to find the right menu in the touchscreen. It does have a good range of motion when you do find it, but there's nothing obvious or expected about how to do so. Same with the mirrors.

The radio turned on twice, unexpectedly, and very loud. I'm sure I did something to cause this, but no idea what. There are no buttons anywhere, the controls are all on the touchscreen, and neither of us touched it. After the first time, we set the volume to 0, and two days later it reset to quite loud.

The chimes. Oh my god, the chimes. Be driving along normally, slightly approach one edge of the lane, maybe to make sure there's space between you and the truck you're passing, DING and the screen shows "VEHICLE DEPARTING THE LANE TAKE CONTROL IMMEDIATELY" and the wheel shudders. Note, at no point did I use any of the autopilot features, or even attempt to use basic cruise control. But I got this lane departure warning probably 200 times. If you're at a stop light and aren't already creeping when the light turns green, you get another DING. Occasionally, there's this kind of klaxon sound that came without a written indicator.

The speedometer is in the middle of the car. There is nothing in front of the driver gauge-wise.

Charging. First recharge was from 77%-95%. It took an hour. Second was from 45%-100%, which took 40 minutes. Third was from 81%-92%, which took an hour. Fourth was 50%-97%, which took 65 minutes. All at Tesla Superchargers, all after the battery preconditioned, all above 25 degrees, all being the only vehicle in a "block." I have no idea why they vary so much. I did like that you just plug the car in and it takes care of everything else. Range and the "GOM" seem a lot worse than our experience in the Mach E.

Trunk. The trunk opens with the push of a button, like ours. But it doesn't close all the way. Push the button to close and it lowers down, but doesn't latch. You then need to latch it manually, which makes this horrid grinding sound. This might just be an issue with the specific rental car we had, but at only 14,000 miles, seems pretty early for a failure of such a high-use component.

The Y is a lot louder than the Mach E. More road noise, more wind noise, more component noise.

Opening the doors from the outside is a huge pain, as you have to first push a button than manipulate this weird lever that pops out. Opening them from the inside is just a push button, which kind of leads to the nightmare scenario: what happens if you're inside one that suffers a complete power failure?

Horrid visibility out the rearview mirror.

Things I liked:

• the car seems even zippier than our Mach-E Premium. I don't ever leadfoot drive, so it's hard to tell, but it certainly has plenty of oomph. Not a big selling point for me.
• The side mirrors tilt down slightly when you shift into reverse. There's a post somewhere here about using Forscan to make a hack for that and it's a good feature Ford should consider.
• The screen is clearer and seems to have a quicker refresh rate.
• When you signal, the screen shows the corresponding left or right side view camera as well as your mirrors. I know our cars don't have those cameras, unfortunately.
• You can plug an SD card or USB stick in to auto-record all the camera feeds.
• When moving slowly toward an object, once you get within ~3', the screen shows you the distance in inches, which is neat when maneuvering in parking lots. Unfortunately, it seems to do this using cameras rather than a laser or ultrasound, so I don't know how reliable it is.

These are just my wife and my thoughts on a week of driving the Y, but I figured those in the Mach E community might be interested. I'm sure other people have different experiences, better or worse. I know the Mach E isn't perfect by any stretch, but it remains the best car I've ever driven.

Thanks for the comparison. I have friend the sits on the school board with me and he just purchased a Tesla. We have not taken our 2021 MME4E further than Chicago or Indy, both of which for us we can reach and return on 100% and have on occasion done some fast charging. However, in playing with the prospect of taking a longer trip, I have been exploring the features that would be an aid, but not found anything like he describes. They recently took a trip where he was alerted that he should not exceed 70 mph or he would not have enough battery. Once at his destination, he said he was instructed, by the car, to not turn it off because it still uses energy with it is off and that he should find a charger and charge, which he did. Finding fast chargers for him appears not to be an issue, like it is for us. Since we have an F150 that we use for long trips, we probably have no need of features like that, but they would be nice. Any thoughts from our Mach-E Peeps?

 

[ShaggySS]

Given that they would never see it (it sits in a pocket/drawer/purse 99.9% of it's life), why would you care if it's 'ginormous'. Also, I chose not to laugh at the lady who needed to charge her phone in my Mach-E to start her Tesla.

They would laugh if they rented a Mach-E for a week. As much as I am frustrated by the PaaK I deal with it because its better than that giant key in my pocket. I would pay for a small key no buttons if they had it. Marketing idea for Ford!

That is funny about the Tesla lady, my wife carries her credit card key in her purse for backup. Though putting that giant Ford key in her purse wouldn't be a big deal for her. I really like that Ford kept the door pillar buttons to gain entry into the car and the backup passcode. For me it it feels like a foolproof solution plus I can lock my phone in the car if I don't want to deal with it and still have access. Something Tesla does not offer. I did take my wife car once took the credit card thing and had a hard time trying to figure out how to lock my phone in the car while I went on a run. Turns out you push the lock button on the screen and close the door.

 

[curtisfinney]

It's personal observation. If it was a study I would have cited it. I don't know any 20-30yo that wants old school buttons to come back. Likewise I don't know anyone from a younger generation that wants to give up their cell phone for a land line or flip phone. When I was a kid I remember people saying computers wouldn't be commonplace except in business. I feel you're just denying the inevitable, but I could be wrong.

As for cost, I don't think you need a study to examine the price of a screen vs a plastic button. Not to mention all the developers that you have to employ to maintain the software. Old cars with buttons never got updates or UI changes. Going digital has nothing to do with saving money, not even close.

Just like you have your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. Come back in 10 years and let me know how it played out.

Then call it your opinion and don’t try to make it sound like it’s based on facts

 

[DevSecOps]

Ok, so either there's a lot of malicious word twisting going on or you guys just aren't reading the entire conversation. I'll assume it's the later and therefore let's get those panties out of a bunch and untangle this.

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up cost of touchscreen vs. cost of buttons (which is more than just a piece of plastic).

Because back in this post there was a message directed at me that simplification (removal of buttons) was due to bean counters (cost savings). I responded to that person saying that I respectfully disagree because the cost of UI development over time and the electronics are actually more than if we just had buttons.

Then call it your opinion and don’t try to make it sound like it’s based on facts

It was always my opinion and I never stated it as fact. If you don't like opinions how come you came into this thread? The title is literally "my thoughts" as in opinions. This entire thread is based on opinions. I think this is something that you need to deal with personally, I don't need to be involved. But I would recommend that you stop watching the news and going on the internet if you don't like opinions or counter opinions.

Comparing watch choices to this kind of thing is ridiculous.

I suggest you direct your anger at the person who compared it to watches, not the person who responded to them. That would be here for your reference.

except for applications where you shouldn't be looking at it when you're trying to use it.

Because no one ever crashed changing a CD or their radio station right? Knobs are just as dangerous as a touch screen. The problem isn't the touch screen the problem is that you should know as a grown adult when you should be adjusting things while driving a 5000lb deadly object down the road. Voice controls are far an away safer than pushing a button or looking at a touch screen, so why not embrace those? Safety solely at your convenience isn't safety.

For those who are going to comment and say "well Tesla makes you"... wrong! You didn't read the manual on how to operate the vehicle. For headlamps, pull the physical stalk back then use the left wheel on the steering wheel to control the setting (touching a screen is not needed). For wipers, push the button at the end of the stalk and then use the same left wheel to adjust (touching a screen is not needed). Or you can just speak it. Or you can use the screen. Don't fault technology because you chose not to understand how to operate the vehicle.

You may want to do a little more research before giving opinions. ?

Not sure why you would make this comment or be rude... but at least you can recognize it's an opinion without me specifically stating it. Your reply in this post is completely lost on me.

You said that analog watches (with hands) are making a come back. My reply was that I don't think that's correct given the amount of digital watches being sold. So why you linked a very expensive watch makes absolutely no sense to me. Unless you are tying your statement about something making a comeback to a previous paragraph about how much things are? I think we could stick a bunch of jewels on a digital watch and sell it for stupid amounts as well if we wanted to. Not sure that means anything at all and my response to you had nothing to do with money, it's based on your comment that analog things (not digital) are making a comeback.

Then your response about gaming also makes no sense in context. Gaming has always been analog (mouse, keyboard and controller). It's moving more digital (mobile phone based). It's not moving from digital to analog at all.

In conclusion:

In summary, I can't think of anything that has gone from digital (touch screen etc) to analog (buttons) in my life. From life saving medical equipment, TVs and appliances to Airplanes things are getting more digital and less analog.

For those who think cars are going to go back to more buttons, I disagree but that's my opinion, which I'm entitled to have. You have your opinion and you're entitled to that as well. None of us can predict the future, all we can do is look at history and guess. My guess based on historical trends is that we will continue to move away from analog systems (buttons).

I'm the first to admit that I'm extremely forward thinking when it concerns technology. I'm the one who has a internet connected digital toilet with no flush lever. Personally, I would never buy another vehicle with majority buttons in it, but that's my choice.

So like I've said a few times, bookmark this thread and 10 years from now let's see who's right? I'll accept if my guess is wrong. Will you?

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Some your points about change are valid, but don’t play the argument that someone’s an old dog who can’t learn new tricks. Change needs to make sense and it needs to improve something other than only cost while making the user experience for most worse and I am not advocating for making everyone happy. You never will

I will never embrace having no display behind the steering wheel like Tesla does for the Y and 3. This is 100% cost savings and not a change for a better user experience.

I love my Mach E and the touchscreen, but you will never get me to agree that not having physical HVAC controls is better. It’s not as you can learn to adjust them without looking. For example, Ford should allow us to change the default control of the big stupid knob to be the HVAC fan. I adjust that way more than volume and I already have that on the steering wheel.

Most people think that they will miss the driver display, but quickly become accustom to not having one. there are a few advantages to not having a driver display like having an unobstructed view of the road. Also I like the the air vents are right in front of you and not to the side. Also at night, you don't have lights shining back.

There's really one good reason to have a driver display and that's to display the Speed. However most of the time I drive with the flow of traffic. And if I needed to know my exact speed, it's an easy glance to the right vs. down.

As far as buttons, I prefer knobs vs. buttons. Easier to adjust without looking.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Actually, having a button/knob is most likely more costly. The knob on the MME would have been less expensive if they left that out and just used the touchscreen. I doubt that a knob that was used in the past (technology wise) will ever come back. They will be integrated and knobs seem to be making somewhat of a comeback lately.

Like I have said before, even though people don't like change they do however like simplicity.

Once digital watches came out I thought that would be the end of the hand sweep dial's. The digital watches have been out for decades (more than 10 years) and they (hand sweep dials) don't seem to be going away anytime too soon.

The example of buttons used for gamers can be cited via the hand held controller for most games. I think all of the "good" ones use knobs and buttons. And I don't think Grandpa and Grandma are the gamers. ?

The knob in the MME is not attached mechanically in any way to the screen. It's just a captive knob attached by double sided tape.

Sponsored