You can't road-trip in an EV...hold my beer

[Mirak]

I take a different approach. Just about the only thing EV owners are concerned about is DCFC. However, ICE owners have to worry about bad gas, fan belts / electric fans, fuel injectors, radiators, transmissions, axles, spark plugs, fuel filters, getting robbed or scammed at gas stations, fuel tank leaks, ........ I could go on and on.

We are on an EV forum, go on an ICE vehicle forum and see how many complaints and issues they have. Out of the millions of EV's sold, only a handful come on these forums and complain. I'm at 10,000 miles with my first EV, including a 3,200 mile round trip from San Diego to Whitefish Montana and have had no issues worth mentioning. My last ICE vehicle had transmission issues after 3,000 miles. Let us not judge.

Oh, I'm not judging. There are definite advantages to owning an EV... many of which you named! But your thinking is, respectfully, whataboutism. I just think we need to be realistic that DCFC is not where it needs to be, it's still too frequently a major PITA, and we need to be honest about it and demand better.

I LOVE that I don't have to pump gas anymore. I sometimes HATE that I can't pump gas anymore when I'm on a road trip. Sounds contradictory, and yet both are true. It's both one of the biggest advantages and disadvantages of owning an EV.

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[Hammered]

I take a different approach. Just about the only thing EV owners are concerned about is DCFC. However, ICE owners have to worry about bad gas, fan belts / electric fans, fuel injectors, radiators, transmissions, axles, spark plugs, fuel filters, getting robbed or scammed at gas stations, fuel tank leaks, ........ I could go on and on.

For the record, EVs have axles (with CV joints), electric fans, radiators, fixed ratio transmissions, multiple cooling loops. They're not magic hover cars. About the only regular item a modern ICE needs done is oil, and even that can be done at 20k mile intervals. Plugs and trans don't come in until around 100k or so. EVs are far from maintenance free and come with their own issues. If you do get a 'fuel tank leak' in an EV, it's going to turn into a raging inferno complete with its oxidizer.

A 10 minute stop every 500 miles for fuel is far less risk than 3 20-30 minute charging sessions for the same distance. Not really a comparison there. Current EV charging infrastructure is just something criminals haven't caught onto yet. There's some rather sketchy charging locations that aren't optional for some transits. Current EVs come with a lot of caveats, primarily of which is if it can be charged at home. A 'no' to that question alone is an instant disqualifier.

 

[ChehRob]

About the only thing that gets Honda/Toyota cars before 250K miles is a medium grade fender bender. It is ironic that about the time ICE cars really were perfected the need for a switchover to electric became necessary.

 

[mkhuffman]

About the only thing that gets Honda/Toyota cars before 250K miles is a medium grade fender bender. It is ironic that about the time ICE cars really were perfected the need for a switchover to electric became necessary.

I don't believe switching to electric is "necessary".

I purchased mine because I wanted it. It was a totally unnecessary purchase, and I could have gotten a better equipped ICEV for less. Still. It's so cool and fast and fun. And I can refuel at home.

 

[RandyMache]

For the record, EVs have axles (with CV joints), electric fans, radiators, fixed ratio transmissions, multiple cooling loops. They're not magic hover cars. About the only regular item a modern ICE needs done is oil, and even that can be done at 20k mile intervals. Plugs and trans don't come in until around 100k or so. EVs are far from maintenance free and come with their own issues. If you do get a 'fuel tank leak' in an EV, it's going to turn into a raging inferno complete with its oxidizer.

A 10 minute stop every 500 miles for fuel is far less risk than 3 20-30 minute charging sessions for the same distance. Not really a comparison there. Current EV charging infrastructure is just something criminals haven't caught onto yet. There's some rather sketchy charging locations that aren't optional for some transits. Current EVs come with a lot of caveats, primarily of which is if it can be charged at home. A 'no' to that question alone is an instant disqualifier.

So we agree, thank you.

 

[Phil Martin]

I take a different approach. Just about the only thing EV owners are concerned about is DCFC. However, ICE owners have to worry about bad gas, fan belts / electric fans, fuel injectors, radiators, transmissions, axles, spark plugs, fuel filters, getting robbed or scammed at gas stations, fuel tank leaks, ........ I could go on and on.

We are on an EV forum, go on an ICE vehicle forum and see how many complaints and issues they have. Out of the millions of EV's sold, only a handful come on these forums and complain. I'm at 10,000 miles with my first EV, including a 3,200 mile round trip from San Diego to Whitefish Montana and have had no issues worth mentioning. My last ICE vehicle had transmission issues after 3,000 miles. Let us not judge.

i have 150k miles on my ev vehicle, no issues. I have 180k miles on my ice vehicle, no issues. I disregard any ev proponent with the assumption because it's an ev it's somehow less vulnerable to problems. Maker and build quality matters.

 

[Kotch]

Some BEVs display an overly optimistic range when charged to 100%. The MME has always used driving history and local climate conditions to adjust the estimated range to something more realistic.

When I first got my car, it was a lot less optimistic. Now it is more optimistic, but still, it is using data to adjust it so you have a realistic estimate of your range.

If you drive like the EPA test, you will get EPA range. If you do not, you won't. That is how all BEVs work.

mkhuffman,

Appreciate your response. As noted in my previous post the reason I purchased the MME was based on an estimated range of 312 miles so I could engage in longer road trips from Portland to the Bay Area and Palm Springs. I have no qualms embarking on a road trip as the EV charging stations along I5 are fairly plentiful and reliable (Electrify America in particular). And once MME owners have access to the Tesla super chargers that will open the door to longer jaunts.

As for the range calculation hopefully my experience will be similar to yours wherein the range is “more optimistic”. I will test this theory next month and into the summer months. That being said the notion that the computer controlling the battery relies on driving history and climactic conditions strikes me as counterintuitive. When an extended range battery (or any BEV battery for that matter) is fully charge it should register the potential range in miles, not what is estimated based upon those other conditions. Seems an interesting algorithm was built into the MME that isn’t the same as other BEV’s. Perhaps it’s simply semantic, potato v. potatoe. Just wish Ford would have been more forthcoming in stating the likely range of the MME based on normal driving conditions. I’ve not read where anyone is getting over 300 miles of range with this configuration. Anyway I do appreciate your explanation of the battery range issue.

 

[mkhuffman]

mkhuffman,

Appreciate your response. As noted in my previous post the reason I purchased the MME was based on an estimated range of 312 miles so I could engage in longer road trips from Portland to the Bay Area and Palm Springs. I have no qualms embarking on a road trip as the EV charging stations along I5 are fairly plentiful and reliable (Electrify America in particular). And once MME owners have access to the Tesla super chargers that will open the door to longer jaunts.

As for the range calculation hopefully my experience will be similar to yours wherein the range is “more optimistic”. I will test this theory next month and into the summer months. That being said the notion that the computer controlling the battery relies on driving history and climactic conditions strikes me as counterintuitive. When an extended range battery (or any BEV battery for that matter) is fully charge it should register the potential range in miles, not what is estimated based upon those other conditions. Seems an interesting algorithm was built into the MME that isn’t the same as other BEV’s. Perhaps it’s simply semantic, potato v. potatoe. Just wish Ford would have been more forthcoming in stating the likely range of the MME based on normal driving conditions. I’ve not read where anyone is getting over 300 miles of range with this configuration. Anyway I do appreciate your explanation of the battery range issue.

I have seen posts from CR1 owners who are getting over 300 miles of range. I have seen some with Premiums post that as well. But nobody is getting 300+ at high speeds. If you drive below the speed limit, you might get 300 on the highway. You definitely will not at 80 mph. So plan accordingly!

 

[Mach1E]

I have seen posts from CR1 owners who are getting over 300 miles of range. I have seen some with Premiums post that as well. But nobody is getting 300+ at high speeds. If you drive below the speed limit, you might get 300 on the highway. You definitely will not at 80 mph. So plan accordingly!

^^

It’s why I wish the window stickers were more clear with 4 numbers-

Summer city range
Summer highway range
Winter city
Winter highway

Would set more clear expectations that people could understand. We are used to getting better efficiency on the highway and no change in the cold with gas cars.
Electric obviously don’t work that way.

 

[the golden eel]

As for the range calculation hopefully my experience will be similar to yours wherein the range is “more optimistic”. I will test this theory next month and into the summer months. That being said the notion that the computer controlling the battery relies on driving history and climactic conditions strikes me as counterintuitive. When an extended range battery (or any BEV battery for that matter) is fully charge it should register the potential range in miles, not what is estimated based upon those other conditions. Seems an interesting algorithm was built into the MME that isn’t the same as other BEV’s. Perhaps it’s simply semantic, potato v. potatoe. Just wish Ford would have been more forthcoming in stating the likely range of the MME based on normal driving conditions. I’ve not read where anyone is getting over 300 miles of range with this configuration. Anyway I do appreciate your explanation of the battery range issue.

As you'll come to learn, how you drive (fast/slow) and weather (hot/cold, headwind/tailwind) have a HUGE impact on range of any EV.


As for getting over 300 miles on a charge, it is very doable. But again, depending on driving and weather conditions.

An example I can give you... I have a 10 mile commute to work. The entire 10 miles are on roads and streets with a speed limit ranging from 35-50mph. These non-freeway speeds are great for EV range. In the summer I routinely get more than 4 miles/kWh on my commute. So if I only drove to work and back, I could get 364 miles on a single charge. (4 miles/kWh multiplied by a 91kWh battery). Now of course I can't get those numbers in the winter, and I wouldn't be able to get if I add in any freeway driving at higher speeds.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that it makes sense for the car to factor in your recent driving history, because those play such a big role on your expected range.

 

[Mirak]

It’s why I wish the window stickers were more clear with 4 numbers-

Summer city range
Summer highway range
Winter city
Winter highway

Yes. There are many more factors, but this 2x2 grid would provide a much clearer picture without being overly complicated.

 

[Peugfan]

^^

It’s why I wish the window stickers were more clear with 4 numbers-

Summer city range
Summer highway range
Winter city
Winter highway

Yes, good suggestion but define winter. Would that be winter in Florida or winter in Alaska. Some would still say, Ford said I could go xxx miles in winter…they are lying. ?

 

[Hammered]

I don't expect any of the manufacturers or the govt to put real-word ranges on stickers anytime soon. They're still trying to sucker in people to EVs with overly optimistic ranges. This tactic does far more harm than good as people complain and add to EV FUD. Unlike ICE vehicles when fuel is low, you can stop at just about any street corner and refuel. EVs on the other hand still require owners to be cognizant of how much energy they're going to realistically need, and if they fall short, where they're going to be able to get more, and what exactly that entails.

 

[Mach1E]

Yes, good suggestion but define winter. Would that be winter in Florida or winter in Alaska. Some would still say, Ford said I could go xxx miles in winter…they are lying. ?

Like everything- just pick a number and test it, then disclose the number.

30 degrees seems reasonable.

The hardest thing would be waiting around for 30 degree weather to do tests. But that’s their problem to solve, not mine.

More likely they would to some real testing to get a baseline calculation then just use math to adjust the numbers.

Example- just reduce by a fixed percent for winter range.

Car magazines have been doing this for decades. It’s called a DA (density altitude) correction factor.

It’s how they can test cars in the 1/4 mile anywhere with any weather. Then they adjust for temp and altitude.

 

[mkhuffman]

Like everything- just pick a number and test it, then disclose the number.

30 degrees seems reasonable.

The hardest thing would be waiting around for 30 degree weather to do tests. But that’s their problem to solve, not mine.

More likely they would to some real testing to get a baseline calculation then just use math to adjust the numbers.

Example- just reduce by a fixed percent for winter range.

Car magazines have been doing this for decades. It’s called a DA (density altitude) correction factor.

It’s how they can test cars in the 1/4 mile anywhere with any weather. Then they adjust for temp and altitude.

They could put a dyno in a freezer, a big freezer of course, and measure the difference in range at different speeds and temperatures. Of course that type of test ignores the impact of aerodynamics, which can be very significant.

They just need a factor, such as 60%, to apply to the ideal conditions test result.

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