NACS 3 pins - CCS adapter 5 pins. How? (ANSWERED)

[B177y]

For the electrical engineers of the forum...

How does NACS accomplish everything using 3 pins, while CCS uses 5 pins (upper circle) + 2 DC pins (7 total)?

The adapter that is being ordered by Ford looks like it has 5 pins on the CCS side - 2 sensor pins, 1 single pin on the bottom of the circle, and the 2 huge DC pins.

Tesla looks like it only has the 3 pins to accomplish AC and DCFC.

How do they do that?

How does the adapter make 3 NACS pins behave like 5 on the CCS side?

My recent saga with a bent "charge sense" pin has me paying attention to all of these pins and their fragility.

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[AliRafiee]

It has 5 pins too.

 

[Aubury]

NACS has 5 pins, the large pins are shared for DC and AC charging. CCS the AC and DC pins are separate (the ones missing in the adapter in the circular section are for AC charging, the large pins on the bottom are for DC).

 

[B177y]

It has 5 pins too.

Thank you.

CCS still has 7 though, doesn't it? 5 in the top circle and the 2 DC pins on the bottom. NACS gets it all done with only 5.

For some reason, I never thought to wikipedia it ?‍. Thought it would be a trade secret or something.

 

[B177y]

NACS has 5 pins, the large pins are shared for DC and AC charging. CCS the AC and DC pins are separate (the ones missing in the adapter in the circular section are for AC charging, the large pins on the bottom are for DC).

Ok, this is what I thought would be the case. Seems simple, but probably not easy.

 

[RMoore]

NACS has 5 pins, the large pins are shared for DC and AC charging. CCS the AC and DC pins are separate (the ones missing in the adapter in the circular section are for AC charging, the large pins on the bottom are for DC).

I’m a bit out of touch with the various formats and terminology so bear with me. Does NACS include both AC and DC charging? Maybe what’s confusing me is that I know the NACS adapter for the Tesla superchargers only works for that, it won’t work as an adapter for AC charging using an L2 Tesla charger. Maybe I’m just confusing the adapter with the general NACS standard for charging?

 

[B177y]

I’m a bit out of touch with the various formats and terminology so bear with me. Does NACS include both AC and DC charging? Maybe what’s confusing me is that I know the NACS adapter for the Tesla superchargers only works for that, it won’t work as an adapter for AC charging using an L2 Tesla charger. Maybe I’m just confusing the adapter with the general NACS standard for charging?

You are correct, NACS apparently sends AC or DC through the large top pins (thanks @Aubury).

You are also correct that the adapter won't work for level 2 AC charging. The CCS side of the adapter doesn't have the AC pins on it, only the DC pins.

The NACS side of the adapter only looked like it had 3 pins until @AliRafiee posted the pinout picture. I couldn't see the tiny pins on the bottom of the NACS until I zoomed all the way in on the picture of the adapter, after I knew what to look for.

 

[Mach-Lee]

Because CCS has separate AC and DC pins, we need two separate adapters. One for AC charging and one for DC charging. A lot of us have the AC one already for Level 2 chargers.

 

[Aubury]

Because CCS has separate AC and DC pins, we need two separate adapters. One for AC charging and one for DC charging. A lot of us have the AC one already for Level 2 chargers.

I'm just a lowly computer engineer, but I wonder if it would be possible to engineer a "smart" adapter that could switch the NACS pins over based on detecting what type of charger it is connected to. Obviously would need to pull power from the proximity pilot or the control pilot and who knows how much power you would be able to pull from those without affecting charge functionality. The charger would also be decently large to fit the contactors that can switch the pin connections over.

 

[B177y]

I'm just a lowly computer engineer, but I wonder if it would be possible to engineer a "smart" adapter that could switch the NACS pins over based on detecting what type of charger it is connected to. Obviously would need to pull power from the proximity pilot or the control pilot and who knows how much power you would be able to pull from those without affecting charge functionality. The charger would also be decently large to fit the contactors that can switch the pin connections over.

Ooooohhh... This sounds like a cool project!

 

[Aubury]

Ooooohhh... This sounds like a cool project!

Also incredibly dangerous since you're talking about handling both high voltage AC and DC with vast amounts of current.

 

[Maquis]

I'm just a lowly computer engineer, but I wonder if it would be possible to engineer a "smart" adapter that could switch the NACS pins over based on detecting what type of charger it is connected to. Obviously would need to pull power from the proximity pilot or the control pilot and who knows how much power you would be able to pull from those without affecting charge functionality. The charger would also be decently large to fit the contactors that can switch the pin connections over.

It would be impractical to have hardware with switching capable of 500 amps in the form factor of an afapter.

 

[B177y]

Also incredibly dangerous since you're talking about handling both high voltage AC and DC with vast amounts of current.

Danger = fun! ??

 

[timbop]

Danger = fun! ??

"what could possibly go wrong" ?

 

[Gilles]

You are correct, NACS apparently sends AC or DC through the large top pins (thanks @Aubury).

You are also correct that the adapter won't work for level 2 AC charging. The CCS side of the adapter doesn't have the AC pins on it, only the DC pins.

The NACS side of the adapter only looked like it had 3 pins until @AliRafiee posted the pinout picture. I couldn't see the tiny pins on the bottom of the NACS until I zoomed all the way in on the picture of the adapter, after I knew what to look for.

On Tesla, you have connectors to the DC battery and AC chargers that are both open when you plug in. The communication protocol decide if it it AC or DC and closes the appropriate connector. So for an adapter to support both AC and DC on non Tesla, you would have to implement the communicaton logic and connectors that close for the appropriate charge type.
A good explanation of this is on:
When Ford switches to NACS, it will have to build that logic in the car (Just like Tesla did).

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