Report: Toyota CEO claims EVs worsen CO2 emissions, pushes back on proposed ICE bans

[dbsb3233]

Speaking of auto company CEOs, corporate strategic plans and leadership, below is an article from 2006 that speaks volumes about Bill Ford's stewardship of the company.

Despite Bill Ford's "widely publicized goal of selling 250,000 hybrid vehicles a year by 2010" Ford Motor abandoned that commitment and instead went for......wait for it........ethanol!

" The Sierra Club said it was "appalled" that Ford was pulling back on its commitment to hybrids in favor of flexible-fuel vehicles. "

I mean seriously, talk about a lack of vision and leadership, one could hardly do worse.

For context, Tesla was founded in 2003, three years before Bill Ford pulled back from electrification and went into ethanol. The rest is an unfortunate history, but a history that could have been predicted.

Ford Plans Shift in Focus Away From Electrification/Hybrids

Sounds like the right decision to me, for that timeframe and the state of batteries at that time. And I sure wouldn't base any business decision on what the Sierra Club complains about.

BTW, Ford was one of the early ones to offer a hybrid in a popular vehicle: the 2004 Escape Hybrid. Did OK, but they ultimately dropped it. IIRC, choosing the hybrid option added close to $5000. Too much for most buyers in that vehicle class.

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[ChasingCoral]

This thread

 

[trutolife27]

This thread

Yep, correct. The funny thing about it is Farley is from Toyota. One of the reasons he left was Toyota's lack of interest in the True EV market.

 

[Popeye]

The point is when the long term strategic plans for Ford were developed in the last decade, Ford chose ethanol over electrification. A critical misjudgment on Ford's part at a critical fork in the road for the auto industry.

History has shown that Ford's original plan in 2005 to go down the road to electrification was the correct one. For whatever reason Ford abandoned those plans in 2006 with their odd pursuit of ethanol.

That same year, 2006, a 3 year old company called Tesla unveiled their first EV, the Roadster, which went on sale two years later.

Given the long development times and massive investments required in the auto industry it's the companies who are good at spotting trends and consistent in the implementation of their visions that are often the most rewarded.

so then you are saying Ford will be rewarded because it’s electrification plans are far more mature than Toyota.? Great point!!

 

[dbsb3233]

The point is when the long term strategic plans for Ford were developed in the last decade, Ford chose ethanol over electrification. A critical misjudgment on Ford's part at a critical fork in the road for the auto industry.

History has shown that Ford's original plan in 2005 to go down the road to electrification was the correct one. For whatever reason Ford abandoned those plans in 2006 with their odd pursuit of ethanol.

That same year, 2006, a 3 year old company called Tesla unveiled their first EV, the Roadster, which went on sale two years later.

Given the long development times and massive investments required in the auto industry it's the companies who are good at spotting trends and consistent in the implementation of their visions that are often the most rewarded.

No, it simply means 2005 wasn't the right time. Ford continued selling many millions of vehicles for the next 12 years while Tesla bled money for that decade selling a relative pittance.

By 2017, batteries had improved enough in energy density and price to consider making some serious BEVs (which became the Mustang Mach-E, then the eTransit, then the F-150e). Smart timing, from the way I see it.

 

[trutolife27]

In today's pace in tech and the world, things change rapidly from day to day hour to hour. It took tesla years to turn a profit from cars. and with credits going away it's going to get tighter and tighter.
BEV market is only 2% that is not much. You jump on things at the right time.

 

[trutolife27]

33:35 mark

 

[dbsb3233]

33:35 mark

I can't stand to listen to those two. Sorry I gave them a click.

 

[All Hat No Cattle]

In today's pace in tech and the world, things change rapidly from day to day hour to hour. It took tesla years to turn a profit from cars. and with credits going away it's going to get tighter and tighter.
BEV market is only 2% that is not much. You jump on things at the right time.

For the sake of accuracy, Tesla does not appear to have a full year of profits from selling cars.

Maybe when they have a countrywide sales network, like Ford does, then they may have matured enough to really make profits from car manufacturing, not Carbon Credit sales.

After all, they only have dealers in 31 States.

And note paragraph 3 below. On the surface, it appears that Tesla loses money on every sale??? Are we allowed to write WT*?

• Tesla revenue hit $6.04 billion during the second quarter of 2020, with about 7% of that, or $428 million, coming from sales of regulatory credits.
• 
  
• CFO Zach Kirkhorn said during the company’s earnings call Wednesday that Tesla expects revenue from sales of regulatory credits to double in 2020 versus the prior year but to decline over time.
• Without zero-emission vehicle (ZEV) and other regulatory credits, Tesla would not have been able to report a four consecutive quarters of GAAP profitability, a milestone it reported Wednesday that meets the qualifications for Tesla to join the S&P 500.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/23/tes...ntal-credits-help-drive-to-profitability.html

 

[trutolife27]

I can't stand to listen to those two. Sorry I gave them a click.

me either they are not well-liked by a lot. But they called out Toyota perfectly.

 

[All Hat No Cattle]

Report: Toyota CEO claims EVs worsen CO2 emissions, pushes back on proposed ICE bans

So that was Post #1 in this thread. Big whoop about what a Toyota CEO thinks.

From today's Wall Street Journal:

Japan to Phase Out Gasoline-Powered Cars, Bucking Toyota Chief

TOKYO—Japan said it planned to stop the sale of new gasoline-powered cars by the mid-2030s, bucking criticism by Toyota Motor Corp.’s chief that a rapid shift to electric vehicles could cripple the car industry.


The plan released Friday followed similar moves by the state of California and major European nations, but it has faced resistance from auto executives in a country that still makes millions of cars annually that run solely on gasoline engines.


Japan would still permit the sale of hybrid gas-electric cars after 2035 under the plan. Many models from Japan’s top car makers—Toyota, Honda Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co. —come in both traditional and hybrid versions.

 

[malba2366]

In today's pace in tech and the world, things change rapidly from day to day hour to hour. It took tesla years to turn a profit from cars. and with credits going away it's going to get tighter and tighter.
BEV market is only 2% that is not much. You jump on things at the right time.

Tesla still does not profit from their automaking operations due to inefficiency in their industrial operations. They are currently profiting from the sale of carbon credits to other automakers. If Tesla can get the efficiency of their industrial operations to the level of the tier one automakers (not an easy feat) they will be unstoppable since they have the lowest battery costs, and they don't have to feed margin to a dealership network.

All of the legacy automakers are in a tough spot, as they are laden with huge legacy costs and a dealership sales system. Toyoda's statements were an obvious attempt to try to get the Japanese government to delay EV mandates (which they still will do it it puts Toyota in a bad spot). Ford is better off than most, because they control the highly profitable pickup truck market in the US, and the global market for cargo vans, also their partnership with VW allows cost sharing between the two automakers. All the other automakers will soon be scrambling to partner with each other to develop BEVs in a more cost effective manner.

 

[Popeye]

Tesla still does not profit from their automaking operations due to inefficiency in their industrial operations. They are currently profiting from the sale of carbon credits to other automakers. If Tesla can get the efficiency of their industrial operations to the level of the tier one automakers (not an easy feat) they will be unstoppable since they have the lowest battery costs, and they don't have to feed margin to a dealership network.

All of the legacy automakers are in a tough spot, as they are laden with huge legacy costs and a dealership sales system. Toyoda's statements were an obvious attempt to try to get the Japanese government to delay EV mandates (which they still will do it it puts Toyota in a bad spot). Ford is better off than most, because they control the highly profitable pickup truck market in the US, and the global market for cargo vans, also their partnership with VW allows cost sharing between the two automakers. All the other automakers will soon be scrambling to partner with each other to develop BEVs in a more cost effective manner.

Tesla is way behind in manufacturing. Hackett and Farley said the MME will be profitable from the jump. So as battery prices come down they are well positioned to make a huge impact.

truly can’t beat Ford manufacturing.

 

[malba2366]

Tesla is way behind in manufacturing. Hackett and Farley said the MME will be profitable from the jump. So as battery prices come down they are well positioned to make a huge impact.

truly can’t beat Ford manufacturing.

You are correct, but they have done a damn good job getting where they are in less than 10 years of vehicle mass production...have to give credit where it is due.

 

[Popeye]

You are correct, but they have done a damn good job getting where they are in less than 10 years of vehicle mass production...have to give credit where it is due.

give credit for what?? They don’t put them together correctly and do zero quality control before they are shipped. Congrats to them they can kind of sort of in a way manufacture their product. Horray them! Now let’s try actually putting together without falling apart?

I’ll give credit when they can actually manufacture and deliver they product they claim they build.

as far as that VW story..hahahahha. They are pumping out 800k vehicles a year at that facility. That’s a big so what story. You can actually drive the vehicles that leave that plant.

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