Paying Our Fair Share of Highway Taxes [ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS]

[hack-e]

I just paid the new Texas $200 EV charge for my MME registration for the first time. I've been averaging 20k miles/year with my MME so that's 1¢/mile for me. Seems okay to me. But I haven't tried to compare that to an ICE rate.

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[ArthurDOB]

As your students probably convey to you everyday, facts are so damn boring. It’s much more interesting to peddle with conspiracies and disinformation.

It's a constant battle to teach them media literacy.
Me:
"If it sounds crazy, check mainstream sources. If it's real, the same information will be there, too."

Student: "But the Earth is flat. I heard it from Kyrie Irving. Look at the map. It's flat, too!"

Me: ? (thinks) "How much longer until retirement?"

 

[doogie63]

I promise I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I teach High School Economics, so I can't let this one go.

If you were one of my students, we'd learn that...

• Governments do not print money when they need sources of revenue. They tax, borrow, and issue bonds. Printing money instead of doing those three things leads to hyperinflation (see Weimar Republic Germany & Robert Mugabe's Zimbabwe). If the U.S. (or any country) kept printing more and more money every time they needed it, we'd (they'd) have bills like the one pictured below.
• The dollar was fiat money the instant we stopped using the gold standard in August 1971. It is instead backed by the "full faith and credit of the Federal Government." A dollar is worth a dollar because we all agree that it is. Here's a nice overview of the Gold Standard from a reliable source: https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/09/gold-standard.asp
• $1 in August 1971 will buy what $7.61 bought in February 2024, the most recent month for which there is data. That's because there is always inflation.
• It's best to stay away from books that promote debunked conspiracy theories about the Federal Reserve Bank (or anything else for that matter). Stick with reliable sources. If you can't find the same information in multiple reliable sources, it's almost certainly incorrect.

Class dismissed.

I was joking making fun of how the government prints to much money making the $ worthless. And nice cut and paste from the book by Steve Forbes https://www.amazon.com/Inflation-What-Why-Its-Bad/dp/1641772433

 

[doogie63]

Government i.e. (collectively you and me in State/Federal/local) needs resources to do many of the daily activities that we enjoy.

Examples:
Schools
Roads
Defense
Just to name a few.

Ironically, if the Government collected more money they would not need to print more money.

Now granted, if one stopped spending money one wouldn't need either avenue but if we were to continue with the services that are already in place (defense, schools etc.) are you in effect in favor of collecting more taxes and not printing more?

Just curious.

I was being sarcastic about how our government is in debt and still printing money. Which when they print money makes our dollar worthless. I'm in fovor of them stop spending money on wasteful thing. We have a spending problem. They have a list every year listing all the wasteful spending. Crazy some of the things they spend money on.

 

[ArthurDOB]

Hopefully you teach your students that the current spending practices by the government need to change to avoid hyperinflation and that a balanced budget personally and otherwise will avoid financial failure.

It's my job to present facts and allow them to come to their own conclusions, not tell them what I think government needs to do.

One fact is that there is no government policy right now or in the last 100 years that would lead to hyperinflation. No one is now, or has in that 100 years, printed vast quantities of currency to pay the bills.

 

[ArthurDOB]

I was joking making fun of how the government prints to much money making the $ worthless. And nice cut and paste from the book by Steve Forbes https://www.amazon.com/Inflation-What-Why-Its-Bad/dp/1641772433

I did not cut and paste from any source. If you don't believe me, I couldn't care less.

Edit: You need a new reading list.

 

[Space_Pony]

It's my job to present facts and allow them to come to their own conclusions, not tell them what I think government needs to do.

One fact is that there is no government policy right now or in the last 100 years that would lead to hyperinflation. No one is now, or has in that 100 years, printed vast quantities of currency to pay the bills.

One fact I've heard from economists is that the current rate of spending is unsustainable. Trillions of dollars of debt is a vast quantity that needs to be corrected.

 

[DennisD]

I was being sarcastic about how our government is in debt and still printing money. Which when they print money makes our dollar worthless. I'm in fovor of them stop spending money on wasteful thing. We have a spending problem. They have a list every year listing all the wasteful spending. Crazy some of the things they spend money on.

I totally agree that we spend too much money.

Just like purchasing a car, I think that people that borrow the entire amount many more times than not can't really afford it and they put most things on a credit card (just like the Government) and they are going down the same rabbit hole if you will.

I think if we raised taxes (not print more money) and made our society pay as we go, the spending problem would quickly be solved no different than if people couldn't borrow to the hilt on many of their purchases.

The Government (which is collectively is all of us) is not much different in many ways.

Just my two cents,

 

[dbsb3233]

Always left out of the equation is the federal gas tax. Those revenues go to the federal highway fund, which then get reallocated back to the states for road projects.

So really, we shouldn't be comparing EV registration fees to just the state gas tax, we should be comparing to the state + federal gas taxes.

Put in that context, most of the state EV fees are actually below the gas tax funding for roads, since there is no counterpart fee to the federal gas gas.

 

[ArthurDOB]

One fact I've heard from economists is that the current rate of spending is unsustainable. Trillions of dollars of debt is a vast quantity that needs to be corrected.

Yes, this is true, but spending can't be reduced drastically. It would require severe cuts to programs people like and depend on. The American people would not accept that, either. This is why governing is hard.

 

[mkhuffman]

Fact 4: State governments should incent drivers to move to BEV's, or hybrids (which raises a whole 'nother issue, but we'll ignore them for now)

This an opinion, not a fact. Why did you call it a "fact"?

 

[mkhuffman]

Yes, this is true, but spending can't be reduced drastically. It would require severe cuts to programs people like and depend on. The American people would not accept that, either. This is why governing is hard.

People should not depend on government, and therefore cutting services people to depend on should not be a problem. And I dispute your assertion that cuts would be severe. Cut slowly, and gradually - wean people off dependence on the government. Easy. Not hard.

 

[ArthurDOB]

I totally agree that we spend too much money.

Just like purchasing a car, I think that people that borrow the entire amount many more times than not can't really afford it and they put most things on a credit card (just like the Government) and they are going down the same rabbit hole if you will.

I think if we raised taxes (not print more money) and made our society pay as we go, the spending problem would quickly be solved no different than if people couldn't borrow to the hilt on many of their purchases.

The Government (which is collectively is all of us) is not much different in many ways.

Just my two cents,

I generally agree with what you state here, but comparing the federal budget to a family budget is a common and mistaken one.

Unlike you and me, the goverment can borrow as much money as it wants, any time it wants. We can't. It has virtually unlimited credit. We also can't issue bonds and pay the bearers interest. The government's income streams are many. Ours are limited. We have to stay within our means, or try to. They do not. Thus, the budget comparison is a faulty one.

Everyone wants someone else to pay. If we all paid our fair share, that would be a positive development. People would not complain as much if they knew everybody else was paying their fair share.

 

[DAC17]

This an opinion, not a fact. Why did you call it a "fact"?

Because many states do incent buyers through tax credits, etc. I understand some states may be different.

 

[DAC17]

People should not depend on government, and therefore cutting services people to depend on should not be a problem. And I dispute your assertion that cuts would be severe. Cut slowly, and gradually - wean people off dependence on the government. Easy. Not hard.

Common sense easy, politically hard. Like most things. Grim though it may be.

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