Paying Our Fair Share of Highway Taxes [ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS]

[Kamuelaflyer]

Hawaii has started transitioning to a mileage/weight based system for all vehicles including commercial. We already have an annual required state safety inspection which records mileage, so that part is covered. Most folks in the state should see lower costs. Some living on Hawaii island might see a push in total fees due to the longer distances driven here. I was part of the pilot project using our Tacoma a few years back.

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[BX179]

In Michigan we pay more for our plates. Estimated we pay an equivalent of about 8000 miles of road taxes per year.

 

[ArthurDOB]

I just got my notice that it's time to renew my license plate tabs. There is a $75 EV tax included that I was expecting. Makes sense since we don't buy gas but use the roads. That's fair.

 

[Mach1E]

I just got my notice that it's time to renew my license plate tabs. There is a $75 EV tax included that I was expecting. Makes sense since we don't buy gas but use the roads. That's fair.

But you buy more electricity and pay more taxes because of that.

I feel like I’m alone on an island with that opinion. ?‍

 

[RSF]

But you buy more electricity and pay more taxes because of that.

I feel like I’m alone on an island with that opinion. ?‍

The taxes you pay on electricity are not used for roads. The government can't just redirect utility taxes that way.

 

[Vulnox]

But you buy more electricity and pay more taxes because of that.

I feel like I’m alone on an island with that opinion. ?‍

We have solar so while we use more electricity for our EV, not all of it gets taxed if solar is offsetting.

While solar is hardly commonplace, either are EVs, so there would be holes in that even if we overlooked the issue of electricity taxes not going towards roads generally.

I still maintain we need to just do away with consumption based taxes, electric or ICE, and either make it weight based or just a flat rate for all. Too many variables these days between hybrids, EVs, PHEVs, hydrogen, ICE, etc, where having all these different tax systems is ridiculous.

 

[ArthurDOB]

Government doesn't need more taxes, they just keep printing money. That's the reason we are 34 trillion in debt and our $ is becoming worthless. Since the 70's the dollar has lost 97% of it's value. It's now fiat money. Not backed by anything. Good read The Creature from Jekyll Island Update 5th Edition https://a.co/d/bUiXYWo

I promise I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I teach High School Economics, so I can't let this one go.

If you were one of my students, we'd learn that...

• Governments do not print money when they need sources of revenue. They tax, borrow, and issue bonds. Printing money instead of doing those three things leads to hyperinflation (see Weimar Republic Germany & Robert Mugabe's Zimbabwe). If the U.S. (or any country) kept printing more and more money every time they needed it, we'd (they'd) have bills like the one pictured below.
• The dollar was fiat money the instant we stopped using the gold standard in August 1971. It is instead backed by the "full faith and credit of the Federal Government." A dollar is worth a dollar because we all agree that it is. Here's a nice overview of the Gold Standard from a reliable source: https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/09/gold-standard.asp
• $1 in August 1971 will buy what $7.61 bought in February 2024, the most recent month for which there is data. That's because there is always inflation.
• It's best to stay away from books that promote debunked conspiracy theories about the Federal Reserve Bank (or anything else for that matter). Stick with reliable sources. If you can't find the same information in multiple reliable sources, it's almost certainly incorrect.

Class dismissed.

 

[ArthurDOB]

But you buy more electricity and pay more taxes because of that.

I feel like I’m alone on an island with that opinion. ?‍

I realize that. I don't have a problem with that, either.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

I promise I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I teach High School Economics, so I can't let this one go.

If you were one of my students, we'd learn that...

• Governments do not print money when they need sources of revenue. They tax, borrow, and issue bonds. Printing money instead of doing those three things leads to hyperinflation (see Weimar Republic Germany & Robert Mugabe's Zimbabwe). If the U.S. (or any country) kept printing more and more money every time they needed it, we'd (they'd) have bills like the one pictured below.
• The dollar was fiat money the instant we stopped using the gold standard in August 1971. It is instead backed by the "full faith and credit of the Federal Government." A dollar is worth a dollar because we all agree that it is. Here's a nice overview of the Gold Standard from a reliable source: https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/09/gold-standard.asp
• $1 in August 1971 will buy what $7.61 bought in February 2024, the most recent month for which there is data. That's because there is always inflation.
• It's best to stay away from books that promote debunked conspiracy theories about the Federal Reserve Bank (or anything else for that matter). Stick with reliable sources. If you can't find the same information in multiple reliable sources, it's almost certainly incorrect.

Class dismissed.

As your students probably convey to you everyday, facts are so damn boring. It’s much more interesting to peddle with conspiracies and disinformation.

 

[Jack Roberts]

Are we paying our Fair Share of highway taxes? Since those taxes are mostly a per gallon assessment, in most cases we are not and it isn't helping anyone. Some States are charging a fee when you register your BEV but that isn't fair either. There needs to be a tax based on miles driven and the weight of the vehicle. Here in upstate NY the roads took a beating this winter and road repairs are very expensive. There needs to be an equitable solution.

In Georgia I pay $230 EV tax every year when I renew my tag. I am retired and drive about 5000 miles per year. I am paying 3 times what an ice vehicle with the same miles would pay.

 

[Mach1E]

The taxes you pay on electricity are not used for roads. The government can't just redirect utility taxes that way.

Sure they can.

They just don’t currently.

I posted a list of taxes I pay on electricity including a 6% state sales tax.

They could use that money however they like. We are discussing changing tax laws. I don’t think we need to ADD a tax to account for EVs lack of paying gasoline tax.

We already pay extra utility and sales taxes.

I think the states should recognize that and choose to divert some of those utility sales taxes to roads if they need to.

Seems “fair” to me. The title of the thread is about fairness after all.

 

[Mach1E]

We have solar so while we use more electricity for our EV, not all of it gets taxed if solar is offsetting.

While solar is hardly commonplace, either are EVs, so there would be holes in that even if we overlooked the issue of electricity taxes not going towards roads generally.

I still maintain we need to just do away with consumption based taxes, electric or ICE, and either make it weight based or just a flat rate for all. Too many variables these days between hybrids, EVs, PHEVs, hydrogen, ICE, etc, where having all these different tax systems is ridiculous.

I think that’s a reasonable solution to the “fairness” question, but it misses out on one purpose of a gas tax that I reference earlier.

It can be looked at like a “sin tax” where the government wants to make people want to consume less.

Even solar isn’t “tax free” either. You likely paid thousands in sales taxes when you purchased the system. Probably about the same amount of taxes you would pay in a decade of normal electric bills.

They get you coming or going for sure.

I just don’t like the idea of stacking taxes on top of taxes. We pay taxes on electricity already. Don’t need to create an additional tax or fee on top of that to account for fuel usage.

 

[dtbaker61]

Are we paying our Fair Share of highway taxes? Since those taxes are mostly a per gallon assessment, in most cases we are not and it isn't helping anyone. Some States are charging a fee when you register your BEV but that isn't fair either. There needs to be a tax based on miles driven and the weight of the vehicle. Here in upstate NY the roads took a beating this winter and road repairs are very expensive. There needs to be an equitable solution.

I have suggested changing our entire MVD registration system to be based on actual weight*actual miles driven*mil_rate = funds needs to road/bridges, and eliminate state 'gas tax' completely.

if highway funds were not tied to fuel type, I think it would be fair and equitable.

it has to start legislatively, and then implemented state-wide.

 

[Space_Pony]

I promise I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I teach High School Economics, so I can't let this one go.

If you were one of my students, we'd learn that...

• Governments do not print money when they need sources of revenue. They tax, borrow, and issue bonds. Printing money instead of doing those three things leads to hyperinflation (see Weimar Republic Germany & Robert Mugabe's Zimbabwe). If the U.S. (or any country) kept printing more and more money every time they needed it, we'd (they'd) have bills like the one pictured below.
• The dollar was fiat money the instant we stopped using the gold standard in August 1971. It is instead backed by the "full faith and credit of the Federal Government." A dollar is worth a dollar because we all agree that it is. Here's a nice overview of the Gold Standard from a reliable source: https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/09/gold-standard.asp
• $1 in August 1971 will buy what $7.61 bought in February 2024, the most recent month for which there is data. That's because there is always inflation.
• It's best to stay away from books that promote debunked conspiracy theories about the Federal Reserve Bank (or anything else for that matter). Stick with reliable sources. If you can't find the same information in multiple reliable sources, it's almost certainly incorrect.

Class dismissed.

Hopefully you teach your students that the current spending practices by the government need to change to avoid hyperinflation and that a balanced budget personally and otherwise will avoid financial failure.

 

[Thunderbuck]

...They will probably add new taxes on DCFC charging to collect money from the outsiders...

I don't necessarily object to a tax on public DCFCs, either. My biggest concern with all of this is that there are clearly jurisdictions out there that are trying to DISCOURAGE EV adoption.

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