MY21 Blue Cruise Fix Not Covered Under Warranty

[Mach1E]

Can you show me an example of Tesla sending an update the breaks a major feature and making customers out of warranty pay to fix it? Or Apple sending an update that breaks a major feature on iPhone and making anyone outside of their 1 year iPhone warranty or without AppleCare go to an Apple store and then pay out of pocket to fix it?

I’ll show you that example when you show me an example of another manufacturer paying for service work at a dealership when a vehicle is out of warranty.

Aside from recalls, it just isn’t going to happen, no matter which car manufacturer you buy from.

But since you asked about Tesla, it didn’t take long to find that google result-

And no it’s not just limited to cars-

“I tried to update my out-of-warranty HP Printer once with a firmware that HP said was required to enable new functionality. The update failed and the printer was bricked. HP said "so sorry, buy a new printer". “

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thr...icking-your-car-after-warranty-expires.38045/

This is just plain how warranties work. Out of warranty? You pay for the repairs. Doesn’t matter WHY the car broke at that point.

This is for cars, phones and even printers.

You can complain, you can even sue, but you won’t get anywhere.

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[azerik]

But since you asked about Tesla,

Oh so you work for Tesla! (joking)

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

That doesn't mean they're necessarily legal, or that Ford put much thought into them

Ford has an army of lawyers, both in house and outside counsel in all 50 states, that makes sure the terms are enforceable. They aggressively defend such matters.

 

[carbonizedbrett]

And it doesn’t have a frunk, or a feature equivalent to BlueCruise Hands-Free.

The GV60 does have a teeny tiny frunk. And unlike my Mach E, there will never be a software update to allow remote release. ? But even after I bought a Lightning key to make access to my Mach E's frunk easier, I barely used it. If a frunk is important to you, you will definitely be disappointed with a GV60.

True, HDA isn't hands-free. But neither was my BlueCruise after 12/31/23. If I were going to keep the Mach E - and it ever looked like my car would get BC > 1.0 - I'd probably pay the $600 for 3 years. But I don't do a ton of mapped highway driving and even when I do, my hands don't come off the wheel very much. I would not pay $800/year for the privilege. But for many, the lack of (constant) hands-free could certainly be a deal-breaker.

There are things I will miss about the Mach E, but the frunk and HFBC are very low on that list for us. I very much like HOBC and and HDA has been easily as good and in some ways better, at least compared to BC 1.0.

The things I will miss the most are walk-away locking, wireless AA/CP (because there's only one data USB port and I can't use a thumb drive for audio files and AA at the same time), and the much nicer exterior curves of the Mach E.

 

[Rabidsquirrel22]

I’ll show you that example when you show me an example of another manufacturer paying for service work at a dealership when a vehicle is out of warranty.

This isn’t that black and white. Normal service work out of warranty is maintenance and repairs caused by things breaking on their own, not caused directly by the company pushing an update to the vehicle. Furthermore, OTAs are so new to most other manufacturers I haven’t even seen an example of other companies breaking a feature similar to BlueCruise with an OTA, so the question of how they would handle this is speculation at this point.

Your two Tesla examples were just people asking the hypothetical question (one 10 years ago). In the first post, replies said they got another OTA to fix whatever issue occurred and the second post, nobody ever replied saying they ended up having to pay for a software fix. My takeaway from that is Tesla may cause issues with software updates, but they’re at least capable of sending software fixes through OTA too. Ford keeps pushing buggy software and then telling us to take our cars to the dealer to get it fixed. Mines had to go in twice for this just in the last 6 months. Once for this BlueCruise issue and again for the drive mode not available issue. I think I’d take my chances with a car that can be broken and fixed with OTA out of warranty rather than one that only gets broken if those are the only options I have.

It may be legal to offer no support to vehicles out of warranty after pushing bad software to them, but that doesn’t make it a consumer friendly practice that should be supported or defended.

 

[Mach1E]

This isn’t that black and white. Normal service work out of warranty is maintenance and repairs caused by things breaking on their own, not caused directly by the company pushing an update to the vehicle. Furthermore, OTAs are so new to most other manufacturers I haven’t even seen an example of other companies breaking a feature similar to BlueCruise with an OTA, so the question of how they would handle this is speculation at this point.

Your two Tesla examples were just people asking the hypothetical question (one 10 years ago). In the first post, replies said they got another OTA to fix whatever issue occurred and the second post, nobody ever replied saying they ended up having to pay for a software fix. My takeaway from that is Tesla may cause issues with software updates, but they’re at least capable of sending software fixes through OTA too. Ford keeps pushing buggy software and then telling us to take our cars to the dealer to get it fixed. Mines had to go in twice for this just in the last 6 months. Once for this BlueCruise issue and again for the drive mode not available issue. I think I’d take my chances with a car that can be broken and fixed with OTA out of warranty rather than one that only gets broken if those are the only options I have.

It may be legal to offer no support to vehicles out of warranty after pushing bad software to them, but that doesn’t make it a consumer friendly practice that should be supported or defended.

Read the fine print on your warranty.

Unfortunately it is black and white.

It may not be consumer friendly and you
may not like it. But it is what it is.

As noted, it also isn’t limited to Ford or even limited to cars.

This is how warranties work.

Your options are to buy an extended warranty or pay out of pocket.

To be clear, I’m not defending it nor saying that we should like it.

Just explaining how it works.

That said, that doesn’t mean you should just “give up.” It’s worth asking Ford for an exception or allowance. Also if enough people have the same issue, a recall may get issued.

But a lawsuit? Totally pointless.

 

[byoungblood]

Read the fine print on your warranty.

Unfortunately it is black and white.

It may not be consumer friendly and you
may not like it. But it is what it is.

As noted, it also isn’t limited to Ford or even limited to cars.

This is how warranties work.

Your options are to buy an extended warranty or pay out of pocket.

To be clear, I’m not defending it nor saying that we should like it.

Just explaining how it works.

That said, that doesn’t mean you should just “give up.” It’s worth asking Ford for an exception or allowance. Also if enough people have the same issue, a recall may get issued.

But a lawsuit? Totally pointless.

That's BS, a manufacturer doesn't get to break my car and just say "our bad, but we're not going to pay to fix it". I wouldn't call a lawsuit completely pointless if Ford continues to establish a pattern of using vehicles in the field as a way of beta testing their updates. You can't hide behind a contract if you're acting in bad faith or being negligent.


The only real solution is to disable any OTA updates about 2 months prior to when your warranty expires. This way you're protecting yourself against any latent issues from an OTA. There was about a 3-4 week period between the 6.13 update and BC breaking in my car.

 

[Mach1E]

That's BS, a manufacturer doesn't get to break my car and just say "our bad, but we're not going to pay to fix it". I wouldn't call a lawsuit completely pointless if Ford continues to establish a pattern of using vehicles in the field as a way of beta testing their updates. You can't hide behind a contract if you're acting in bad faith or being negligent.


The only real solution is to disable any OTA updates about 2 months prior to when your warranty expires. This way you're protecting yourself against any latent issues from an OTA. There was about a 3-4 week period between the 6.13 update and BC breaking in my car.

Actually as the OP figured out……. They do.

Likely that’s not the end of the story as Ford will continue to send updates to fix the bugs.

But I would bet that it’s buried in the terms and agreements that if you opt into receiving OTA updates out of warranty, Ford isn’t liable for any repairs.

 

[HowdyDoody]

FWIW there seem to be some Tesla Reddit threads that talk about OTAs breaking out of warranty cars and Tesla requiring payment for support. But those same threads say its never more than a few

Actually as the OP figured out……. They do.

Likely that’s not the end of the story as Ford will continue to send updates to fix the bugs.

But I would bet that it’s buried in the terms and agreements that if you opt into receiving OTA updates out of warranty, Ford isn’t liable for any repairs.

Actually the only thing I figured out is that if Ford doesn't take ownership of this issue in a meaningful way, I'll make certain to let everyone I know who might be considering this car about the issue.

 

[Mach1E]

Actually the only thing I figured out is that if Ford doesn't take ownership of this issue in a meaningful way, I'll make certain to let everyone I know who might be considering this car about the issue.

To what end though?

The same will be true for EVERY manufacturer you buy from.

Why pick on Ford if this is an industry wide thing?

Your thread and responses make it sound like “don’t buy a Ford.” But what manufacturer is any different?

Like you said, even Tesla makes you pay out of warranty. And they’re about as far ahead of the curve as any manufacturer when it comes to OTA support.

 

[HowdyDoody]

To what end though?

The same will be true for EVERY manufacturer you buy from.

Why pick on Ford if this is an industry wide thing?

Your thread and responses make it sound like “don’t buy a Ford.” But what manufacturer is any different?

Like you said, even Tesla makes you pay out of warranty. And they’re about as far ahead of the curve as any manufacturer when it comes to OTA support.

You ask, "to what end" would I warn people about my awful experience with this? I dunno...cause I am a friend? Because Ford has left me with no other recourse?

Perhaps you're right, and @Ford Motor Company doesn't have a legal obligation to timely address a bad OTA code. But it's a terribly short sighted business practice, given that Jim Farley is effectively wagering the entire 100 year company on winning market and mindshare on EVs.

My sense is that Tesla and likely other manufacturers are far more likely to employ capable software engineers whose vehicle forums on their new OTAs don't begin with the inevitable post "what did they break?", that is the case with every OTA thread on this site. In the cases where other OEMs do break something, it's fixed in a subsequent OTA quickly. I know at least a half dozen Tesla owners who are past warranty. Nationwide, there are many Tesla owners past warranty at this point. If this experience with Ford OTAs was common with Tesla, I (and you) would certainly know about it. There have been at least a dozen people on this thread echoing my issue, and yet there are relatively few Mache owners past warranty. Numbers will grow exponentially from here.

Whether it's product improvement, customer service and communication, or warranty extensions, it needs a global fix - not a DM to a disaffected customer on a fan page.

 

[Mach1E]

You ask, "to what end" would I warn people about my awful experience with this? I dunno...cause I am a friend? Because Ford has left me with no other recourse?

Perhaps you're right, and @Ford Motor Company doesn't have a legal obligation to timely address a bad OTA code. But it's a terribly short sighted business practice, given that Jim Farley is effectively wagering the entire 100 year company on winning market and mindshare on EVs.

My sense is that Tesla and likely other manufacturers are far more likely to employ capable software engineers whose vehicle forums on their new OTAs don't begin with the inevitable post "what did they break?", that is the case with every OTA thread on this site. In the cases where other OEMs do break something, it's fixed in a subsequent OTA quickly. I know at least a half dozen Tesla owners who are past warranty. Nationwide, there are many Tesla owners past warranty at this point. If this experience with Ford OTAs was common with Tesla, I (and you) would certainly know about it. There have been at least a dozen people on this thread echoing my issue, and yet there are relatively few Mache owners past warranty. Numbers will grow exponentially from here.

Whether it's product improvement, customer service and communication, or warranty extensions, it needs a global fix - not a DM to a disaffected customer on a fan page.

For sure they can and should do better.

If it makes you feel any better, I am a member of the “my car was broken by an OTA” crew.

The last OTA I got was August 7, 2023. Haven’t gotten one since.

It’s a server side issue and the dealer can do nothing. All I can do is wait on Ford.

Luckily it hasn’t cost me any money, and the updates since last Aug don’t change much about the car.

But yeah, they can do better.

 

[byoungblood]

Actually as the OP figured out……. They do.

Likely that’s not the end of the story as Ford will continue to send updates to fix the bugs.

But I would bet that it’s buried in the terms and agreements that if you opt into receiving OTA updates out of warranty, Ford isn’t liable for any repairs.

I'm not confident on Ford's ability to fix things they break via OTA. They attempted to do so with the 6.13 driver facing camera goof, and if you read through that thread, just about everyone that commented (myself included) the OTA fix failed. It required a trip to the dealer to fix, and some 6-7 weeks later they still apparently have not pushed down an OTA fix.

My concern is that there will be non-trivial updates pushed out to fix latent bugs, etc., and it will become a game of Russian roulette to turn OTAs back on to get a more important update.

I think the OP has a rather good case to seek reimbursement from Ford since he's paying their "subscription" for BC, is being denied the use of the product due to the provider (Ford) breaking the product! It is their hardware and software, I can't justify giving Ford a pass on this just because of what their lawyers have written to wiggle their way out of doing what is right. I've just about had enough of corporate America acting like an acts of customer goodwill are going to put them out of business.

 

[Mach1E]

I'm not confident on Ford's ability to fix things they break via OTA. They attempted to do so with the 6.13 driver facing camera goof, and if you read through that thread, just about everyone that commented (myself included) the OTA fix failed. It required a trip to the dealer to fix, and some 6-7 weeks later they still apparently have not pushed down an OTA fix.

My concern is that there will be non-trivial updates pushed out to fix latent bugs, etc., and it will become a game of Russian roulette to turn OTAs back on to get a more important update.

I think the OP has a rather good case to seek reimbursement from Ford since he's paying their "subscription" for BC, is being denied the use of the product due to the provider (Ford) breaking the product! It is their hardware and software, I can't justify giving Ford a pass on this just because of what their lawyers have written to wiggle their way out of doing what is right. I've just about had enough of corporate America acting like an acts of customer goodwill are going to put them out of business.

I don’t think paying for BC software would entitle you to free hardware fixes at the dealership.

He should be able to get his BC software money back though in this situation.

 

[rugedraw]

@HowdyDoody I was going through the thread and once the bickering started, it lost me and I just decided to ask you if your issue is resolved or not yet. If not, post or PM me your VIN. If it is what I think it is, the fix is very easy.

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