Ford cancels Model e Dealer Program, letting all US retailers sell EVs

[engnrng]

The problem here is even though the press seems to think SS batteries are around the corner, in reality a commercially-viable one is a decade or more away. ?‍?

Another way to say this is that solid state batteries have been "2 years away" for over a decade...

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[Sikkun]

It's rare that I have guests comparing Escape to Mach E.

The Escape is 5" shorter than the Mach E. The Mach E is technically a crossover, but I'd put it in the midsize class From a power perspective, base for base, the Mach E is much more in line with what Edge offers. I am surprised at Escape's interior dimensions lining up pretty well with Mach E, but I would chock that up to Escape's more traditional SUV roofline and the sliding rear seats.

Really I would put it in a weird spot right between the two. Mine is currently sitting right next to my wives edge so I notice how it’s smaller overall. Especially when packing the trunk between the two.

 

[mkhuffman]

I was merely pointing out that cost parity has been achieved in some aspects of the EV world. You can disagree, but this is unnecessary.



I assume, based on your profile, you chose to buy or lease a GT. You made the decision to prioritize performance over pure cost. If you wanted to only have luxury/tech features, you could have bought a Premium for less. It's like saying that a Porsche GT3 is terrible value because it doesn't have door handles like every other high performance vehicle. If you wanted cooled seats, heads up display, an SUV, AND 0-60 in sub 4 seconds, you're paying more than $62K for that.


To my point:
Here's a Select with Comfort Lite, Mobile power cord, and interior protection package in my inventory right now. MSRP $44,430, price after discounts: $41,430.

Here's an Edge with similar features albeit with a power liftgate. MSRP $43,090, price after discounts: $39,090.

Even if you don't take into account fuel savings, maintenance savings, or the other benefits to having an EV, there's price parity in the same vehicle class. I could do much the same thing with an F-150 Lightning.

I could go on about the savings to be had by leasing the Mach E and buying it at the end of the lease, making the Mach e factually cheaper than the Edge by $1000.

Which illustrates my point: You're on this forum, own an EV, and made the same assumptions that some guests make about EVs. The barriers to entry are more complex than any one thing, but there are still a lot of people that haven't actually looked at EVs because of outdated information.

I agree those two cars have similar crappy features. But the MME range is 250 miles. The Edge has a highway range of 460 miles. The MME highway range is probably something like 150 miles in the winter (since mine is 180) and that assumes 100% to 0%, which nobody does. I just don't see how the two vehicles are equivalent when one has less than half the range. Much less.

Normal people would freak out with a car that has to be charged every 150x0.7 = 105 miles when on a trip. They don't have to worry about that with the Edge.

 

[dbsb3233]

It's rare that I have guests comparing Escape to Mach E.

The Escape is 5" shorter than the Mach E. The Mach E is technically a crossover, but I'd put it in the midsize class From a power perspective, base for base, the Mach E is much more in line with what Edge offers. I am surprised at Escape's interior dimensions lining up pretty well with Mach E, but I would chock that up to Escape's more traditional SUV roofline and the sliding rear seats.

The Mach-E has the long front end to give it that Mustang look. But otherwise it's more like the Escape. As you said, interior is nearly the same as an Escape. And the Escape is actually 2" taller than the Mach-E. The Edge is 4" taller. Escape has 6 cf more cargo space than the MME, although the frunk cuts that gap in half.

It's pretty much just the long hood that makes it seem bigger than an Escape. Otherswise it's a tad smaller in other meaningful dimensions. And even moreso than the Edge.

 

[Gloff]

I agree those two cars have similar crappy features. But the MME range is 250 miles. The Edge has a highway range of 460 miles. The MME highway range is probably something like 150 miles in the winter (since mine is 180) and that assumes 100% to 0%, which nobody does. I just don't see how the two vehicles are equivalent when one has less than half the range. Much less.

Normal people would freak out with a car that has to be charged every 150x0.7 = 105 miles when on a trip. They don't have to worry about that with the Edge.

What's with all the negativity? Crappy features? If you want bleeding edge car, an upper midrange crossover EV probably wasn't the right choice. Do you hate your Mach e?

That's not what you asked me. You specifically called out pricing.

If you want to make the range argument, that's fine, and valid. As I said, in my experience selling ICE and EV for 13 years, people like the idea of a road trip, but don't actually utilize that much range. You know how many 4x4s I've sold so people can drive from SF to Tahoe twice a year?

That's not to say EVs are for everyone, but there's a large group of buyers that it would work well for, that don't because of the aforementioned outdated EV info. I do understand cold climates exist, and maybe an EV isn't right for some consumers in markets with cold seasons.

I'm an apartment dweller with only work charging and two EVs (one of which can't even DCFC). I understand the charging availability argument and that too is valid for us apartment dwellers. I chose to adjust some of my habits to save $200/m on fuel costs, and another $30/m in payment.

For EVs, there's a lot that would help adoption, I think price is one of the smaller ones. In my opinion, Infrastructure would be the biggest one, followed by range.

Edit: That last paragraph aligns with your opinion in a prior post that range and charging infrastructure are the major barriers to EV adoption.

 

[Gloff]

The Mach-E has the long front end to give it that Mustang look. But otherwise it's more like the Escape. As you said, interior is nearly the same as an Escape. And the Escape is actually 2" taller than the Mach-E. The Edge is 4" taller. Escape has 6 cf more cargo space than the MME, although the frunk cuts that gap in half.

It's pretty much just the long hood that makes it seem bigger than an Escape. Otherswise it's a tad smaller in other meaningful dimensions. And even moreso than the Edge.

I get that perspective. I haven't had people cross shopping the Escape size (RAV4/CRV/Rogue). Perhaps it's part because it's an SUV, and part because it's not an EV. The Mach E is a nicer car in a lot of ways before even considering EV benefits.

 

[phil]

True, but much longer in the making, this was not a rash decision as was posited.

I don't know to which decision you are referring - the launch of the program or the cancellation - nor do I know who posited it was rash. But developments indicate that the launch was rash and the cancellation was more well-considered.

 

[Gloff]

I don't know to which decision you are referring - the launch of the program or the cancellation - nor do I know who posited it was rash. But developments indicate that the launch was rash and the cancellation was more well-considered.

You suggested that it was rammed through a few months prior. I took that as a quick decision, which I don't believe to be the case. This program took a lot of energy to develop.

 

[dbsb3233]

I get that perspective. I haven't had people cross shopping the Escape size (RAV4/CRV/Rogue). Perhaps it's part because it's an SUV, and part because it's not an EV. The Mach E is a nicer car in a lot of ways before even considering EV benefits.

Agreed on the MME being nicer in other ways. I was just talking about size. The MME has better styling than the Escape, a bigger screen, Sync4, more tech, the giant panoramic roof, quieter, a more "open" feel on the center console, etc. While the Escape is a little taller, and has a better suspension (for my tastes anyway).

Those were my 2 vehicles: a 2021 Mach-E First Edition, and a 2013 Escape Titanium (until we retired the Escape and replaced it with a Bronco Sport last year).

 

[phil]

You suggested that it was rammed through a few months prior. I took that as a quick decision, which I don't believe to be the case. This program took a lot of energy to develop.

No, you read incorrectly. I have no information on how long it took Ford to develop its Model E programs, nor how much "energy" was expended in the process.

What is clear is that the dealer program was a mistake. This is obvious from the embarrassingly quick cancellation, only 21 months after introduction of the program.

 

[Gloff]

No, you read incorrectly. I have no information on how long it took Ford to develop its Model E programs, nor how much "energy" was expended in the process.

What is clear is that the dealer program was a mistake. This is obvious from the embarrassingly quick cancellation, only 21 months after introduction of the program.

Well, this must be pretty humiliating for the geniuses who rammed through this foolish program just a few months ago. Makes it obvious how little Ford understands its own market. At least they were smart enough to eventually figure out they were on the wrong track, and flexible enough to give it up and start over. So, I'll give them credit for that. But wow, they are looking very clueless these days. Like a deer in the headlights. They better get their act together soon if they want to survive as a major manufacturer for another century.

I read the above quote and interpreted that to mean quickly punched through the program. I wouldn't qualify 21 months as a "just a few" months. I work for a dealer, this program had a lot of content at launch, and was certainly in the works for a year or more prior to announcement.

I think the cancellation is not embarrassing, rather it's great that Ford recognized a shift in the market and shifted strategy relatively quickly (for a massive company that is).

 

[phil]

I read the above quote and interpreted that to mean quickly punched through the program. I wouldn't qualify 21 months as a "just a few" months. I work for a dealer, this program had a lot of content at launch, and was certainly in the works for a year or more prior to announcement.

I think the cancellation is not embarrassing, rather it's great that Ford recognized a shift in the market and shifted strategy relatively quickly (for a massive company that is).

You're confusing the time it took to develop the program which may have been many years (though I doubt it) with the brief time it took to figure out it failed and cancel it, which was a mere 21 months.

Yes, I agree it is better to cut your losses quickly and cancel a bad initiative. I gave Ford credit for that in the excerpt you quoted. But announcing an important nationwide initiative with fanfare and alienating dealers with stiff requirements, and then having to climb down and cancel the damn thing in less than two years??? Absolutely that is embarrassing!

 

[Snakebitten]

I don't know how Ford experiences embarrassment.
It seems to just shrug it off and keep going. But then what else is it supposed to do?

 

[phil]

I don't know how Ford experiences embarrassment.
It seems to just shrug it off and keep going. But then what else is it supposed to do?

When foolish and damaging business decisions are exposed, heads should roll.

That's what Ford is supposed to do.

 

[Snakebitten]

Somehow I get the feeling flogging them in the public square would draw a cheering crowd these days.

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