PA to stary an annual “road user fee” to EV owners

[Jimrpa]

easy to read actual odo for miles, and factory spec for GVW, no scale needed.

and yes EVs are heavier than ice, which damages roads more, so big evs with huge batteries should pay more per mile

Right, but the other poster was trying to make a point about infotainment systems and safety system sensors, which I don’t understand. Hence my comment about batteries being the biggest component of EV weight.

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[dtbaker61]

So, how much of the electricity tax should be reallocated to “electric road tax”? How do you propose to make up the resulting shortfall in the budget(s) reliant on electricity taxes? And what about my neighbors who drive Ford Excursions, Chevy Suburbans, Range Rovers, Mercedes G-wagons, and so on? Why should they have to pay “double road tax”, since you now want part of their electric taxes to go to roads and they pay road taxes on their fuel?
What PA is doing seems like a reasonable compromise - a very simple form of a “use tax”.

I would propose eliminating gas tax completely for all vehicles.... and replace with the 'use' tax based on weight and actual miles driven to collect revenue for roads and bridges.

this would be fair regardless of fuel

 

[dtbaker61]

You’re missing the point - all of that data would have to be collected and maintained in totally new systems. Also, some people might object to the state collecting odometer data (I believe PA may already collect that as part of state inspection).

it's not a totally new system in places that already do safety and emissions inspection.

 

[garyd9]

You’re missing the point - all of that data would have to be collected and maintained in totally new systems. Also, some people might object to the state collecting odometer data (I believe PA may already collect that as part of state inspection).

Considering this thread is about PA, and PA already collects the odometer data, this is a non-issue.

 

[sockmeister]

That’s called “chipping” and it’s only done on very small, infrequently used rural roads.

Unfortunately they just did this on a heavily trafficked road in West Chester -- The complete opposite of a low-traffic, rural road. For about 2 months thereafter it was shedding gravel and kicking up debris on cars.
I'd gladly and silently pay the new flat-fee if it went toward avoiding this practice permanently ?

 

[Jimrpa]

I would propose eliminating gas tax completely for all vehicles.... and replace with the 'use' tax based on weight and actual miles driven to collect revenue for roads and bridges.

this would be fair regardless of fuel

In Pennsylvania, about 47,000 vehicles are electric and about 8.9M vehicles are gas-powered. https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicle-registration
So, you propose building an elaborate new revenue calculation and collection system to accommodate 0.5% of all registered vehicles? ?‍

 

[dtbaker61]

Considering this thread is about PA, and PA already collects the odometer data, this is a non-issue.

An additional consideration is many new vehicles like ours already report our odometer data to the manufacturer. And they are selling that data to whoever wants to buy it. This could include Transportation departments to figure average miles of driving, and insurance companies to figure accidents per miles driven. All I'm trying to get across is if we really want to be fair Revenue collection based on road use to keep roads and bridges in good repair we can just base it on Miles and weight and it would be totally fair regardless what fuel type of vehicle is

 

[dtbaker61]

In Pennsylvania, about 47,000 vehicles are electric and about 8.9M vehicles are gas-powered. https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicle-registration
So, you propose building an elaborate new revenue calculation and collection system to accommodate 0.5% of all registered vehicles? ?‍

how many will be electric 10 years from now ?

And as mentioned in earlier post this is not a totally new system it is two more data points in an existing annual inspection process

 

[Mach1E]

So, how much of the electricity tax should be reallocated to “electric road tax”? How do you propose to make up the resulting shortfall in the budget(s) reliant on electricity taxes? And what about my neighbors who drive Ford Excursions, Chevy Suburbans, Range Rovers, Mercedes G-wagons, and so on? Why should they have to pay “double road tax”, since you now want part of their electric taxes to go to roads and they pay road taxes on their fuel?
What PA is doing seems like a reasonable compromise - a very simple form of a “use tax”.

They take however much taxes they need to repurpose.

No one would pay “double tax” with my proposal because electricity taxes wouldn’t increase.

But with the PA tax, my point is exactly this: BEV drivers are paying “double tax” because their fuel is already taxed.

I don’t think the solution for the governments inability to budget tax money properly is to raise taxes.

I’m just shocked that this is such an unpopular opinion among BEV drivers.

 

[Jimrpa]

how many will be electric 10 years from now ?

And as mentioned in earlier post this is not a totally new system it is two more data points in an existing annual inspection process

The annual inspection process and the vehicle registration process are separate. The inspection station just needs verification that you’ve registered your vehicle (hence why you give them your registration card). If they were tied together, the inspection station wouldn’t need to see your registration card.

 

[sockmeister]

Considering this thread is about PA, and PA already collects the odometer data, this is a non-issue.

It really should absolutely be mileage-based. The whole process can be automated.

 

[garyd9]

The annual inspection process and the vehicle registration process are separate. The inspection station just needs verification that you’ve registered your vehicle (hence why you give them your registration card). If they were tied together, the inspection station wouldn’t need to see your registration card.

I think that's just a reflection of the disorganized cluster-f**k that PA is.

 

[Jimrpa]

They take however much taxes they need to repurpose.

No one would pay “double tax” with my proposal because electricity taxes wouldn’t increase.

But with the PA tax, my point is exactly this: BEV drivers are paying “double tax” because their fuel is already taxed.

I don’t think the solution for the governments inability to budget tax money properly is to raise taxes.

I’m just shocked that this is such an unpopular opinion among BEV drivers.

Here’s how they’re paying “double taxes” under your scenario:
If I own an Excursion, I’d still be paying road taxes every time I went to Wawa to buy gas. Additionally, a portion of the taxes on my electric bill would go to road taxes, necessitating a total increase in my electric taxes. So, you are proposing that 8.8M vehicles subsidize 47K vehicles twice.

 

[Jimrpa]

It really should absolutely be mileage-based. The whole process can be automated.

Why do you want to spend all this money building new systems to accommodate 1/2 of 1 percent of vehicles?

 

[dtbaker61]

Here’s how they’re paying “double taxes” under your scenario:
If I own an Excursion, I’d still be paying road taxes every time I went to Wawa to buy gas. Additionally, a portion of the taxes on my electric bill would go to road taxes, necessitating a total increase in my electric taxes. So, you are proposing that 8.8M vehicles subsidize 47K vehicles twice.

No, that's not what I am saying at all.

Taxes paid on your electric bill are completely separate from Road use. That Revenue goes somewhere else.

I am suggesting that federal and state gas tax can be removed from the price of gasoline in diesel at the pump if annual registration fee is calculated using inspection data with actual miles driven and weight of the vehicle. And that portion of the fee goes directly to maintain roads and bridges as the federal and state gas tax does currently. All I am suggesting is a way to collect the same money regardless of fuel type

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