The myth about electric car owners

[1st_EV_2011]

interest may be 'sparked' by environmental concern.... but in my experience as an EV advocate and years selling/installing Solar, the final decision for EVs and Solar always boils down to whether or not the investment is financially sound for the individual.

Enjoyed seeing the conversions you did!

https://www.envirokarma.org/

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[dtbaker61]

Enjoyed seeing the conversions you did!

https://www.envirokarma.org/

thanks... first one in 2008-2009, before Li batteries were easy to get, no good BMS, DC motors/controllers, etc..... very fun though!

 

[profdraper]

If I want to get really mushy on the environmental aspect of EV's... I'm paying for renewable energy to my house. A lot of my power is from the Columbia River.

Energy to EV's is just going to get greener and more sustainable over time. And you don't have to do anything as a car owner except advocate for it as a utility policy. Then everyone benefits from cleaner energy immediately.

Having a ton of autonomous ICE generators out there are only going to be as clean as the day they are made. Generally speaking...

You can't just make an ICE motor immediately a more sustainable or clean burning vehicle.

EV 's start out zero emissions (I can run it in a garage) and the power that just goes in the just gets better.

I'm not going to handwave precious metals and the materials needed to make an EV. Or their weight and added impact on roads. That's a thing.

But I have a lot less guilt when I mash the pedal on this than some far more obnoxious and gas guzzling alternative.

I just want to go fast and giggle. I'm not there to be a dick to everyone else.

Exactly right, but we did have all these exact same arguments & more in the 80s. And we know where that went …. Same bs happening once more in the land of the brave & the free & the rich.

 

[jdpdx]

And if I'm being super honest, the biggest "EV" impact isn't BEV passenger cars. It's e-bikes and other micro mobility like scooters that benefit from improvements in battery and electric motor technologies.

I can go 25 miles ripping at close to 25MPH with an ear to ear grin for about $.10 on an electric scooter. I don't need parking space. I'm zero emission. I'm not adding to traffic.

That can start to add up in air quality improving with the right infrastructure.

 

[DugthePug Dad]

And if I'm being super honest, the biggest "EV" impact isn't BEV passenger cars. It's e-bikes and other micro mobility like scooters that benefit from improvements in battery and electric motor technologies.

I can go 25 miles ripping at close to 25MPH with an ear to ear grin for about $.10 on an electric scooter. I don't need parking space. I'm zero emission. I'm not adding to traffic.

That can start to add up in air quality improving with the right infrastructure.

My E fleet…

I didn’t buy my Mach E to save the planet. I bought it because it’s sexy and fast…

 

[SonicBlue]

I will agree that 'difficulty or lack of DCFC' is slowing adoption.... but I think it is mostly a PERCEIVED problem than a real one that can be solved with education, outreach, and infrastructure improvements.

Typically when I talk to someone who is holding off on buying, their first concern is cost to acquire, second is maximum range, third is lack of DCFC.

My typical responses are questions:

1. Did you know that Base Trim MME is $42k, even without the Fed tax credit (because of chinese batteries)... That's basically the same price I paid after tax credit in 2021....

By the way, did you know that 2 and 3 year old EVs are coming into dealerships off Lease, and you can pick them up for around $25k ?


2. What new ICE SUV would you buy instead? MSRP?

3. What's your longest daily commute/errand distance? (knowing that 90+% of daily driving is <200 miles, the followup response is "great, thats super easy to recharge at home in a couple hours with a L2 charger that costs <$500).

4. The conversation usually leads to "So how much does it cost you to fill up?" Which is highly variable on current price of gas/diesel to compare to, but L2 charging at home always wins. The easy math is
$x.xx gallon of gas gets you about 25 miles in your current SUV, right?
that same 25 miles / 3 = 8 kWhr x $.12/kwhr (in my area) = $.96, or about HALF that if you have solar any are producing your own electricity for about $0.07/kwhr


5. How many times a year to you take a Roadtrip of more than 200 miles? (leading to the next question.... "How many hours to drive between stops to pee and eat/drink?" For me, I find it best for my legs and bladder to stop every two hours or so. Would you agree?)

6. If you stop every 2 hours or so anyway, if you could grab the fast-charge you need in 20 minutes and get back on the road, would that be good?

....Chances are that the "Normie" you are talking to has just convinced themselves to take a closer look at making their next vehicle an EV.

I agree with all your points except ##5 and 6. This is my problem with some EV enthusiasts. They often sugarcoat the difficulties and necessity of public charging.

First, of course public charging is rarely needed for most people. But even if it is only needed 5 or 10% of the time, that’s still a significant amount. And a significant headache when we get to my second point. We buy cars for all use cases - even infrequent ones.

Second, your point 6 is an excellent example of sugarcoating. There is no realistic scenario where you are going to drive two hours at highway speed and then only need “20 minutes” to fill back up and go. 2 hours of drive time at highway speed is gonna be at least 80% of your SOC. And we all know that’s gonna take at least 30 minutes at the charger to get back to 80%. And that doesn’t include the additional time it take to locate a DCFC - most of which are still not as conveniently located as the closest gas station. Typically add a few more minutes for that, at least. And then, if you’ve got a multi-stop trip, you are starting at 80%, which means even shorter legs from there on out.

Third, nowhere did you mention the extra work and planning it takes to plan a route. Not only do you need to locate the chargers, you better check their recent uptime, too. And you better have a backup plan. “Just use A Better Route Planner” you say. No. It isn’t that easy. And regardless, nobody but super nerds wants to plan out charging stops for a road trip.

All this is to say, owning an EV as a second vehicle with an ICE backup is a great choice. But we owe everyone the unvarnished truth about public charging before anyone buys an EV as their exclusive vehicle.

 

[Mach1E]

And if I'm being super honest, the biggest "EV" impact isn't BEV passenger cars. It's e-bikes and other micro mobility like scooters that benefit from improvements in battery and electric motor technologies.

I can go 25 miles ripping at close to 25MPH with an ear to ear grin for about $.10 on an electric scooter. I don't need parking space. I'm zero emission. I'm not adding to traffic.

That can start to add up in air quality improving with the right infrastructure.

This is a great solution…… for large cities where the weather doesn’t suck.

Unfortunately that means it’s not a real solution for most of the country. But yes, it can help.

But honestly? Fixing the big cities might be enough of a solution anyways. Enough so that it wouldn’t really matter what large truck you drive in the middle of the country.

 

[Herbknowsit]

I bought an EV because I have solar and can make my own juice and am no longer driving mega miles. Didn't figure how much fun it is to drive the MME so that turned out to be a bonus. The ICE vehicles I was considering were not far off the cost of the MME so not buying gas was appealing. I HATE (yes strong word folks) super loud ICE vehicles that are driven by those who crave attention. So having a quiet vehicle is right up my alley. I do not agree with those who say that taking steps towards alternative energy and vehicles won't make any difference in quality of life on this planet. Clean air and water is a big deal to me and if my wallet isn't taking a beating by supporting those ideals, why not go that route? Think about it...the whole fossil fuel scenario (pipelines, refineries, tankers etc.) is about as primitive as the Erie Canal would be today. I just hope prices come down for EV's by de-contenting troublesome techy features.

 

[kltye]

I never understand the mindset of people who see things in black and white. "Don't buy an EV if you love hugging trees; go make your own clothes and till the earth for food instead". It's absolutely a false dilemma logical fallacy. You don't have to do extreme things just to make the world a little bit better. I don't think any EV owners are under any false notions that they're saving the world. Electrification is one step in figuring out this mess we're in, not the end-all be-all of saving the planet.

As a side note, my mom has (had?) the same views on organic food: Only buy organic food if everything you eat is organic, otherwise it's entirely useless. ?

 

[jdpdx]

You don't have to be miserable while also being more responsible.

Both can exist at the same time.

 

[Sikkun]

This is a great solution…… for large cities where the weather doesn’t suck.

Unfortunately that means it’s not a real solution for most of the country. But yes, it can help.

But honestly? Fixing the big cities might be enough of a solution anyways. Enough so that it wouldn’t really matter what large truck you drive in the middle of the country.

If you could convince people to buy reasonably sized vehicles that accomplish the task they actually use them for….

Well Ford would probably go bankrupt because there would be 95% less F150’s sold.

 

[jdpdx]

I took my kid to school on the back of this for about 3 years, rain or shine. Took it grocery shopping, to the bar, to the game shop, to friends. It was a vehicle replacement. It was an absolute blast and provided a connection and ability to converse with my kids that you can't do from the back of an SUV.

We were zero emission, these things are like 20 miles or so range and have like a 650Wh (not kWh, an extended Mach-E is 91 kWh in size.. over 100X bigger). Didn't need a parking space to drop off and easily stores in my garage.

And then you have biking purists that give you the side eye while you zoom past them with a grin on a hill.

What's really the goal we are trying to accomplish?
Use less gas? Check
Get some exercise? Check
Have a better experience with my family? Check
Less of a burden on city infrastructure? Check
Fun? Absolutely

I don't need to suffer to get less cars on the road or use less gas as an individual.

It doesn't need to be a culture war. Electric vehicles are just really easy to use as a daily form of transportation.

Charging at home for pennies is fantastic. My 16 year old uses an electric scooter to get to work and back (about 3 miles each way). Scooter was under $400 and it's like $.08 a charge. I don't pay insurance on it and she can just take it in a friends house when she gets there and doesn't need to find a parking spot. It's fantastic and has opened a huge range of freedom and accessibility to her.

She doesn't want the responsibility of driving a $60k EV and actually understands how silly the math is to pay for thousands in insurance to cover her for a handful of days a month she'll use it.

E-bikes and scooters have made urban transportation far more accessible and we all benefit from improvements to tech for all of these products.

tr

 

[Teslaeata]

Times 8 billion people.

…..and another one here?

 

[Teslaeata]

Pretty much all six of your reasons are my reasons. Number four didn’t really do it for me, but I had just ordered a loaded out California special Mustang GT gas version and because it took two months for it to start to be built. I accidentally wanted to drive the electric version of the car and I’m like wow, I’ve driven plenty And own many mustangs and this was just crazy fun because one I love golf carts and this is kind of like a hopped up golf cart to me.

I’m afraid all the haughty pretentious crap from the academics & analysts don’t apply to me.

Then:

Needed new replacement car to put to work

Had PHEV before so already tasted electric, liked it and saw it the way to go not only for the environment

Found the MME was highest range of any realistic options at the time of ordering

Found it was big enough to get all my tools in there

Fancied the Mustang brand and car looked drop dead gorgeous

Could never buy a Tesla because of Musk

Now:

Range works fine for me

Dead smooth

This car turned out to be just amazing after 93,000mikes & 38 months

Convenience of fuelling

Cost saving on tax, fuel, maintenance

Works like a horse for me still

Still can’t bring myself to fund Elon

 

[HuntingPudel]

<SNIP>
I HATE (yes strong word folks) super loud ICE vehicles that are driven by those who crave attention.
<SNIP>

Most of us who have high performance vehicles tend to have louder cars. These cars tend to be louder than the average economy car because they need their exhaust systems to keep up with their power plants. A large portion of those who have performance cars tend to have fun with their cars and are not those who crave attention. ?‍?

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